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Samizdata, derived from Samizdat /n. - a system of clandestine publication of banned literature in the USSR [Russ.,= self-publishing house]
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Samizdata quote of the day – I’m not saying it was the government. But it was the government As most of you will know, I covered the sentencing of the Southport Killer live on Twitter/X as event unfolded in the courtroom on 23 January 2025.
During the hearing, I created a timeline recounting what happened on the day of the attack, minute-by-minute, so that the public could see the full horror of this attack, and what had been kept out of the media.
This was followed by indirect criticism from Merseyside Police who claimed the families had asked for the details of the case not to be published. This had been a lie, told for the convenience of the Police who did not want a riot to breakout as a result of their lies and inaction.
– Charlie Bentley-Astor
Read the whole thing.
Keep comments relevant.
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I read some of her earlier work. It struck me as careful and fair-minded, specifically debunking some of the more extreme conspiracy theories. Very very difficult to see why this work had to be suppressed and eradicated.
I think that your government is profoundly fearful of imminent religious war in your country.
I wonder what they know that we don’t know.
They don’t know anything we don’t know, Bobby. The Establishment are a vast agglomeration of midwits.
So, the midwits are getting things about half as right as a stopped clock? But the one thing they might have right, quite by accident, certainly not as a result of assessing facts and drawing on wisdom, is the religious war bobby refers to.
I read somewhere, I can’t recall where, that there is a tipping point in such things and it is far below any sort of majority or even plurality in an election. IIRC, it’s around 10%. That’s the fraction of the population needed, if they are sufficiently motivated, to force change. Let’s call them “influencers”, although these have knives!
What fraction of the UK’s general population is now Muslim? What fraction of the police and military?
ChatGPT says the number for all of the UK is 6% as of 2021.** It’s four years later, midwits running amok, so it would be interesting to know the trend. Presumably upwards? Hopefully slowing. The tipping point is near…yes?
And no one should mistake my sentiment here as anything but sadness and alarm for the UK.
**ChatGPT: According to the 2021 Census, the Muslim population in England and Wales was reported as 3.87 million, constituting 6.5% of the total population. In Scotland, the 2022 Census recorded 119,872 Muslims, representing 2.2% of its population. Data for Northern Ireland from 2021 indicated 10,870 Muslims, or 0.6% of its population. Aggregating these figures, the total Muslim population in the United Kingdom was approximately 3.998 million in 2021, accounting for about 6.0% of the UK’s total population at that time
Schlomo, 20% is one answer. Here are others from ChatGPT:
Final Estimate: When Does a Minority Drive Change?
3-5% → If highly mobilized (e.g., protests, activism).
10% → When committed and socially organized.
20-25% → When politically engaged.
30-40% → When dominant in key industries or cultural sectors.
The question I asked the AI: “what is the tipping point in the fraction of population where minority populations can drive societal change?”
So, I’d say that at 6% the UK should be very worried!
And yes, I’m probably using ChatGPT too often!
I deleted my comment but i guess you saw it prior to me deleting it. I’ll repost what I remember.
20% is the tipping point. 20% is the threshold that matters. 20% is the point of no return and when 20% is reached then UK will eventually become majority Muslim due to the birth rates.
Right now UK birth rate is 1.6 per woman and for British Muslims in particular it is AT LEAST 3.5 (and I have also come across even higher estimates of the British Muslim birth rate). Even if it is 3.5 – this is a massive difference.
There will be consequences. Already Sharia Courts exist in parts of London. When 20% is reached there will be big permanent changes – political and cultural changes.
Right now there is still hope but once 20% is reached I will bet on the Muslims eventually becoming the majority and also PERMANENTLY taking over the entire country politically and culturally.
Actually the birth rate differential understates the difference. In 100 years British Muslims have about 4.7 generations, while non-Muslim British have something like 3.4 generations on average in 100 years. So the difference is even bigger because of much lower age of giving birth among the Muslim British.
Big story: “Freedom of speech is dead in Britain”
And in other news “Puppies are cute, the Pope is a Catholic and government spending is wasteful.”
And slightly off topic, I think prisons are too brutal, especially here in the US, something that directly leads to the ridiculously high recidivism rate (I think criminals are far more deterred by “sure and certain conviction” than they are by severity of punishment.) Some people should only get out of jail in a coffin, but those that we think should be allowed out should not be brutalized to the point that they are worse on the way out than on the way in. However, this kid and what he did? It makes be favor hanging, drawing and quartering live streamed on Netflix.
The 6%/20% thing is misleading, as it’s the concentration in controlling areas that is the tipping point. You take over a country by annexing its capital city, by annexing its capital institutions. Only 0.5% of the population of Romania overthrew Ceausescu.
Yeah, but even midwits can have inside info.
All of their efforts appear to be aimed at, not quelling indigenous anger, but quelling invader anger. All the appeasement seems directed one way.
Maybe the arms importation is significant. No need to appease the unarmed.
We were told by the establishment that a Welsh choir boy committed the murders – whilst not formally a lie, the man did live in Wales and had once been a choir boy, the establishment was seeking to mislead the public.
My understaning is that Rudakubana is not a muslim so I fail to see how the comments on Islamic tipping points are relevant here especially as Perry had specifically asked for comments to be relevant. What is deeply, specifically, relevant is the antics with Charlie Bentley-Astor’s X account and more generally what this has to do with freedom of speech. For sure the government acts as though all immigration is A Good Thing By Definition and, yes, a lot of immigrants are muslims but that is surely tangential to the specifics of what happened in Southport and what was subsequently done to Charlie Bentley-Astor?
Exactly so, Nick
Apologies for taking this off topic. Thanks for correcting me, NickM.
I knew just enough about this incident to know I did not want to read the gory details. So, I missed that this monster was not actually part of the “religion of peace”.
Then again, can you blame me for thinking he was?
But, mistaken or not, the reaction to the murders was anti-muslim. So it remains pertinent.
GregWA,
I don’t blame you for that because it is exactly the sort of thing Islamists do. I can blame the government (at assorted levels) for shrouding the thing in such needless secrecy that rioting happened because a lot of people simply assumed – and yes, I can understand why. The powers that be are so terrified of a race/culture war with actual blood on the streets that their actions actually led to that, albeit on a small scale.
Bobby,
See my reply to GregWA. But, ultimately, I think this story is really about the government and censorship. What particularly struck me is that Charlie Bentley-Astor was using X which is a platform run by someone who is a self-proclaimed, “Free Speech Absolutist”.
NickM:
I agree. But I also note that, even though the police also failed to announce that the stabber was not a Laplander, there were no anti-Laplander riots.
In the US, we seem to have a general Democrat culture of censorship for the simple purposes of retaining Democrat power. In the UK (to my far-away and poorly-educated eye), the censorship culture strikes me as having a more Islam-centric bent.
Our censors are power-hungry, whereas the UK’s strike me as more fearful.
On the subject of Muslims out breeding us. I come from a family of devout Methodists. In the current generation, out of my fairly large extended family, only one person is still a Christian. Everyone else is either indifferent to religion or actually hostile to it. I would think that Western Muslims have a better track record of passing their religion on to their offspring but I suspect that this might involve a certain amount of coercion and intimidation. I do know personally a girl with Muslim parents who is no more religious than I am. Religion isn’t genetic, in a culture where everyone believes the same stuff it can easily be passed down the generations. It takes a lot more work to sustain it in a very pluralistic society and it often doesn’t work.
bobby b – the claims that the murderer was a Muslim came first from foreign sources, including Pakistan.
The murderer did have manuals from Islamic terrorist groups – and was working on building crude biological warfare weapons, and has, allegedly, asked to pray with Muslims. But – as with Andrew Tate (who has claimed for the last couple of years to be a follower of the Islamic faith, the sincerity of his claims to religious faith have been challenged.
As for disinformation – “Hope Not Hate” (contrary to its name – very much a Hate Group) spread the disinformation that Muslim women were having acid thrown in their faces by Englishmen. It was a lie.
The Hope Not Hate people were not put in prison for their Social Media posts – which were designed to stir up violence between groups of people.
And riots by “anti racist” and “anti Islamophobes” were treated as “protests” – whereas the same sort of activity by “right wingers” was treated as rioting and the people involved were sent to prison.
Two tier “justice”.
Bobby,
Our censors are power-hungry, whereas the UK’s strike me as more fearful.
An extremely accurate and succinct point.
Stony,
I’m not sure it is usualy exactly intimidation (though that does happen) but rather an artifact of cultures taken in toto which are almost entirely, deliberately, encouraged not to integrate because our Powers That Be actively hate our culture and therefore regard every other as superior. It is totally wrong for everyone. I’m technically Anglo-Irish but I’m English. Many of my rellies are Anglo-Indian and that is an issue just because they’re Brummies and I’m a Geordie so there is a language gap…
Stonyground
It is quite possible that you would be correct – that Islamic faith would decline in a “pluralistic society” where everyone was free to attack and ridicule Islam and Mohammed.
However, in this society people who do that tend to get punished. The institutions of the state believe that attacking and ridiculing Christianity is fine, but attacking and ridiculing Islam is unacceptable – that is a form of “racism”, of “oppression” and that such “Islamophobia” must be crushed – by any means necessary.
It should be pointed out that it is NOT Muslims who are mostly responsible for such crushing – it is the “Woke” (“Critical Theory” Marxist) institutions of our society. It is much the same in most Western nations.
Even in the United States, where there is the First Amendment (like the rest of the Bill of Rights, the First Amendment would be considered “Crime-Think” here) people who oppose Islam and Mohammed risk losing their jobs – and face very severe social sanctions. For example, they can kiss a career in academia goodbye.
Meanwhile in Britain a Labour Councillor (NOT a Muslim) who, in a speech on a public street, told a violent mob to “slit the throats” of the supposedly evil Islamophpbes – has still, as far as I know, not been sent to prison.
Perhaps he has been – and I just have not seen an update to the matter.
“in a culture where everyone believes the same”
There are areas of British towns and cities where there is indeed such a dominant system of belief – and such areas are growing.
This belief system is not Methodism. And nor was Methodism founded by a military mind (a highly gifted military and political mind) – and organised with military expansion in mind.
For example, there is no death penalty for leaving Methodism.
As for the “Critical Theory” dominated West – well this “Woke” stuff is not even proper Marxism, Karl Marx would have despised it – and rightly so.
The West of Gladstone and John Bright was a belief system that could hold its own, more than hold its own, against a rival belief system – a belief system that had been its opponent for more than a thousand years.
But the modern “Woke” West is pathetic – the “Critical Theory” mess that dominates so much of the modern West is not a serious system of belief (not a serious world-view) – it will be crushed, and it will celebrate its own crushing – and punish anyone who warns against it.
Re Stony’s comment regarding the non-religious, from all faith traditions (ha! see what I did there?), I’ll save this for another thread (trying to stay on topic!): for every RoP murderer, I’m sure there are many RoP followers who actually want peace. More on another thread where it’s “on topic”!
The right to ridicule Christianity was hard won over quite a long time. G.W. Foote, one of the founders of The Freethinker journal was imprisoned for it. Quite unfortunate that we have to start again from scratch with Islam. Maybe we should have nipped this stuff in the bud decades ago when it first started.
Stonyground – we can not start from scratch with Islam, because it has been decided that opposition to Islam is “Islamophobia” and that this “Islamophobia” is a form of “racism”.
The international establishment is very clear on this – especially the United Kingdom branch of the international establishment.
There is also a theological difference – when Christians have done certain things in history (and they have often done terrible things) the question could be asked (and was asked) “would Jesus have done this?” – with the implication being that Jesus would not have done this, and would not approve of his followers doing such things.
Such a move does not work with Islam.
“Would Mohammed have done this?”
The reply from his followers is straight forward and honest – “yes he would have, and he did so on the following occasions….. and he commanded his followers to do so, till the world follows the correct path”.
The idea that religions were all founded by similar people is wrong, the idea that all religions teach basically the same things is wrong, and the idea that non religious philosophies teach basically the same things is also wrong.
I must stress that the above paragraph is NOT directed at Stonyground as Storyground has not made these mistaken assertions.