Very interesting chat between CNN’s international correspondent Clarissa Ward in Afghanistan and Freddie Sayers of Unherd. This is great stuff and why independent media is so valuable.
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Very interesting on-the-ground report from KabulAugust 20th, 2021 |
 54 comments to Very interesting on-the-ground report from Kabul |
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Yes the lady honestly reports what she has seen and heard – but the lady seems to lack background knowledge. Sadly that is a problem with many journalists – they fall into such traps as thinking that everything depends on “interpretation” (often matters depend on no such thing – Islamic scholars are not American Supreme Court “Justices”, Islamic scholars are serious people).
Islam is very clear in its teaching on women and-so-on – Muhammed spoke on these matters extensively, and he always stated that he was passing on the law of God which can not be changed by human beings.
So the people asking questions of the Taliban are indeed very brave – but they are also wasting their time. The average Taliban fighter may not be well educated – but many of their leaders are Islamic scholars and highly intelligent men. They know perfectly well what the Islamic teaching is on these various matters – and they also know that they (indeed no human beings) have no authority to change Islamic Law.
They do not have to enjoy what they do – but they have to do it. They also know that these are universal teachings (a universal law mandated by God) – not tied to Afghanistan or any other piece of land. When the lady says at the end that the Taliban do not want Westerners in Afghanistan – she does not, yet, grasp that they do not want Westerners in the West either. They want to unite the world – behind the system of ideas that they believe comes from God.
As for the people trying to leave. Do they reject Islam? Or will they end up like the Somali refugees (and other Islamic refugees) who came to the United States and then turn out to still believe in Islam? I do not know – I have no idea. Even if someone says they reject the Koran – that might not be true, as it is an accepted tactic to pretend to reject the teachings of Islam, in order to deceive infidels.
It is much the same as someone saying “I am not a Marxist” – in the Cold War that could not just be accepted at face value, someone who says that must be questioned. They must show that they reject the assumptions of Marxism – “I am not a Marxist” is not enough.
Treating Islam as it was Italian Fascism (a system of ideas developed by Mussolini and a few others – and which lasted about one generation), or German National Socialism (yes Mr Hitler could look back to various German thinkers over centuries – but the final product was largely his creation and, again, lasting about one generation), or even Japanese “State Shinto” (the twisting of Shrine Shinto – it started with mass state education and mass military conscription in the 1870s) is a MISTAKE.
Islam is one of the great cultures of the world – a system of ideas that has dominated large parts of the world for more than a thousand years (it is 14 centuries old) – it WORKS. It WORKS or it would not have lasted so long. I do not hold with it (indeed I have been punished on that account) – but I respect it. You are not going to defeat it by asking a few questions. And it is committed to uniting the world under its doctrines – it is not going to stop trying.
Indeed I have also seen film of these “young friendly fighters” – they could barely stop themselves laughing when some journalist asked them if they would respect “women’s rights” (again see what Muhammed said on these matters). And whether they would allow Freedom of Speech to oppose Islam.
That is not allowed in the WEST (not any more) – of course it is not going to be allowed in Afghanistan.
Some people might not understand what I mean by saying that Islamic scholars, unlike American Supreme Court “Justices”, are serious people. So I will give a couple of examples.
If given the “gold clause” cases of 1935 they, the sort of person who is a Islamic scholar, would rule that the United States government broke its own Constitution – blatantly broke it.
And if given State and Federal Election Law cases in relation to the 2020 United States Presidential Election – the sort of person who becomes an Islamic scholar would rule, correctly, that Election Laws had been broken to rig the election – in several States.
They are serious men – they do NOT start a case by saying “this is the result I want – how do I get there?” (which is what a Western judge tends to do). They, Islamic scholars, seriously examine the text (the Koran) and the Hadiths (the various sayings of Muhammed recorded – with varying degrees of accuracy) and the classical commentaries (which have the role in Islamic thought something like that filled by the Federalist Papers). There are several schools of Sunni Legal thought – but they are united on most things. There are differences – but they are not huge.
Western journalists (used to certain Western judges who just pull judgements from their backsides – a “living Constitution” and “living law” i.e. a turd constitution and turd law) are not going to be able to understand such men – unless they make a real effort to do so.
Telling them “this is not nice – I do not want you to do this” is not going to sway their judgements – they have a duty, and they will carry it out. That duty is to Islamic Law – which, in turn, is a duty to GOD – or so they believe.
Again – these are serious men, they are nothing like Western “liberal” legal game players.
Mr. Marks,
I agree that Islamic society works, it has stood the test of time, so far. However, it is objectively bad at what it does. In theory the Islamic world is unified and peaceful. In practice the Islamic world was astonishingly violent not only against the “infidels” at its borders but also against other Islamic states. To take one example among thousands, when Babur, attacked and conquered the Delhi Sultanate in the early 1500s (from his base in Kabul) he was attacking an Islamic state which had ruled much of Northern India since 1330. To be sure, wars between Islamic states looks somewhat like the constant warfare found in Europe from Charlemagne’s death till Waterloo, but the Christians never made the same claim as the Moslems – that the world would be peaceful once everyone accepted their religion. Little need be said about the Islamic world’s inability to invent technology and the vast plethora of Haditha which, if scoured carefully, can be used to justify almost anything. So, Islam “works” but badly.
I found her explanation about the “Death to American… they seem nice” affair very plausible, showing there are just as many assholes on “our” side as the other side.
She’s a reporter reporting on the collapse of a regime and the Taliban advance, not a history teacher. Vast amounts of your comment are just irrelevant to this particular post.
Seems like this could be a problem. “Reporting” ought to include awareness of the situation beyond what you see in the street. Reporting without history is why so many young people seem to love bloodthirsty mobs. Reporting without history is why so many can look at a food bank and decide that socialism is a proper goal.
Hope she gets out safely. There isn’t anything internal to these peoples culture restraining them from barbarism, particularly against women.
PS: What idiot at CNN sends a woman into *that*? (It still isn’t real to these people?)
Spot on, Mr. Marks. I have had the luck (or not) to live in two Muslim countries, and saw up close and personal what Islam is. The drive to place all land and people under Islam is readily apparent, and the disdain and disgust of those “Kafirs” who refuse Islam is obvious. In their eyes it is God’s Law.
You need only see the Copts relegated to garbage picking jobs and worshipping at crumbling churches that the Egyptian state will never allow to be rebuilt as an example of this disdain. And Egypt is moderate compared to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Khaddaffi-era Libya. I cant comment on Morocco, the current “darling” of Progressives pushing for an example of moderate Islam, but Progressive self-deception is common. As for Turkey their slide into Islamist Autocracy is but one “president for life” declaration away.
Is it just me but is Freddies Sayers being somewhat leading in many of his questions?
Perhaps Peter Quinn, (Homeland), had the right of it. A case of art encapsulating life!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yw8HycLbnM&t=239s
And she is out of there, just like that.
No.
The Afghans largely ARE the Taliban. The only time they are not is when an external force forces them not to be.
The instant that external force is removed, they revert to type.
CNN has form for doing that sort of thing.
And here is another little vignette, some choice quotes.
He left Afganistan when he was ten. But doesn’t think much of his fellow Afghani’s, either.
He’s not too impressed with his adopted country, either. German efficiency and rule following, nah! that’s no good.
Ah, but graft and nepotism saves his bacon.
APL
The New York Magazine feature about Lara Logan was extremely bitchy, so much so that I had to check that it was actually written by a man. The description of her ordeal was certainly understated but I wonder if her anger at the piece was generated more by the endless put-downs and snide comparisons to the saintly Amanpour?
Maybe not “as many” but certainly “a lot”. And this out-of-context “death to America” one was indeed a case in point.
It seems that anything can be described as “mostly peaceful” except unarmed civilians strolling, unopposed by security, into the Capitol building and taking selfies.
I’ll take this opportunity to correct my error, Laura Logan was not working for CNN when she was gang raped by a rag tag bunch of Egyptians. She was working for CBS when she recieved the impromptu ‘invitation’ to play Taharrush
One of the benefits of cultural diversity, no doubt.
I am under the impression her remark was really a surreal juxtaposition of “Death to America” chants but no actually hostility directed at nearby Americans such as her “(i.e. “they seemed nice.”)… moral of the story is anything that can be turned to mean something else will be, an irony indeed for an employee of CNN, given CNN is past master for that kind of shit. Doesn’t change fact she seems to have made a perfectly reasonable observation through.
If you are serious about learning what went wrong in Afghanistan, this is the podcast for you: Warning, it is not reassuring or pleasant; it’s painful. Why didn’t the allies challenge the delusions, described here?
https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2021/08/ep-55-afghanistan-falls.php
FYI Clarissa Ward has left Kabul
I guess her reporting was just too spicy for CNN
Coolidge-not-Koolaid.
The fact that you think that basic information is “irrelevant” shows the problem. It is not just “history” – it is what they believe RIGHT NOW, if you do not understand that (after they have made it so plain) then it is hard to know what to say to you Sir.
These are men who act on their beliefs – if people are not interested in the “irrelevant” beliefs, then everything the Taliban (and all the other groups) do, will come as a surprise. “But why are they doing this….” well they are doing this because they believe….. “SHUT UP – I am not interested in your irrelevant history”.
As for “our side” – what side is that? If I was young and fit (I am neither) and in the American military, I would be forced out as soon as my opinions were discovered (and the Defence Secretary, or rather his dogs, are busy hunting for people with “reactionary” opinions), then the FBI would arrest me (on some fake charge) and I would be locked up in some dark hole, beaten and abused. They are not “my side” and the Rainbow Flag is not my flag (not a matter of not being American – British people have always served in the American military, but not the sort of British person who would be wanted now). As you also put quote marks around the term “our” side – I think you understand this very well.
The international establishment have shown their fanatical HATRED for patriotic Americans – the international establishment hate and despise Western Civilisation, they wish to destroy it. Destroy it utterly.
You know this Sir.
Matthew H. Iskra – I would not advise you to join the British Conservative Party (it would expel you), and the RINOs in the United States would not be fond of you either. I suspect you know this Sir.
Steve Ganders – yes it does not bring peace and it does not bring prosperity.
At the start of the 19th century the Middle East and North Africa had only a fraction of the population they had under the Roman Empire. Most of the land had been reduced to waste – and not by “Climate Change”. I have stood next to the graves of men who reclaimed some of that waste land (they did not tend to have long lives – Malaria, or violence). The price of civilisation is always both sweat (work) and blood.
But I can say more without risk of punishment – and NOT punishment from Islam. Punishment from our own Western establishment – the “educated” establishment of the West, who have such hatred for the West.
Flubber – I am told (and I have no reason not to believe) that CNN has made an editorial decision to stop propping up Mr Biden.
Partly because it is too much like hard work – but also because Mr Biden is no longer of any use to the international establishment (indeed his senile ravings make him a liability).
After all if Mr Biden died right now he would be replaced by K. Harris – who would also do everything the international Collectivists wanted.
So who needs Mr Biden? Some people voted for him (although not nearly as many as claimed) – but I doubt that even the minority of people who voted for him, would actually miss Mr Biden.
The Talibanic chanters did not seem so ‘nice’ as to make Clarissa doubt the advisability of making certain changes to her wardrobe and make-up.
These pictures are just a few days apart. They sum up recent events as well as any. (h/t HotAir)
As the old song goes; “What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours”.
When you figure out what to say, try and do it with half the number of words you initially planned.
Succinctly, what a reporter on-air does is report, not deliver a historical exegesis to the viewers peering at the screen over their lousy meatloaf dinners. If Hank & Wilma can’t figure out Islam after a 20 year war, Clarissa Ward is wasting her time adding historical & theological padding to her observations.
Yes, sure. But how’s that relevant to anything in the video above other that suggesting you can’t accept her “Death to America … They seem nice” remark wasn’t what Ted Cruz & certain overrated conservative talking heads would have everyone believe?
Coolidge not Kool-Aid,
It’s not Passover, but I have four questions for you anyway because you’re fun:
1. What is it exactly that you think “Ted Cruz & certain overrated conservative talking heads would have everyone believe” about her statement?
2. Do you not understand why her comment, in context, was unintentionally hilarious and revealing?
3. How many times has CNN reporters let slip a “they seem nice” remark when interviewing Trump supporters on TV?
4. Do I need to spell this out for you in precise terms or are you able to read between lines the least bit at all?
It all depends on what you mean by “our” side.
In the American context, I do not consider any NeverTrumper to be on my side. (And i have my doubts about many Trump supporters, though not Trump himself.)
And in the British context, i do not consider Boris, and certainly not Theresa, to be on my side.
Incidentally, here is what i regard as a very informative article.
The Unz Review seems to host quite a few cranks, but a year ago i found it worth visiting regularly, mostly for Steve Sailer.
In the long term, i think that there is room for some cautious optimism about Afghanistan. Most Afghans have been given a taste of freedom for 20 years, and unless the neo-Taliban is very much not-as-bad as the paleo-Taliban, they’ll soon miss it.
Coolidge not Kool Aid.
You have stated that you do not want the matter explained – you just want a few words.
O.K. then – stop being an idiot.
“stop being an idiot” is four words. Just stop being an idiot.
Remember you rejected any background information (because you claim people are incapable of understanding these things – and it is not “relevant”), so “stop being an idiot” will have to do.
Snorri Godhi August 21, 2021 at 11:09 pm
Unz is neo-Nazi, holocaust denialist web site. (yes, I know Ron Unz is Jewish himself. As the old saying goes, it takes Jews to make antisemitism work)
“but there are some good writers there!”
You might find some tasty food in trash bin full of rotting garbage, but this is usually not the way to bet.
Lurker:
Not an accurate description, since not everybody there is antisemitic.
I don’t remember seeing any Holocaust denial, but certainly there are 9/11 conspiracy theorists.
It certainly takes American Jews these days!
As i commented a few years ago, i know that antisemites are delusional* because they think that American Jews support Israel.
* the word ‘delusional’ here is meant slightly more ironically than i usually mean it.
It is not a bet, but an opinion about articles which i have already read. (And they don’t have anything to do with Jews.)
It is wrong to call a shit pie a shit pie because whilst there may indeed be lumps of poop in it, there are also apples, raisins & pastry 😉
True. Many do, but many do not, generally the latter being some of the nastiest arse-muffins I have ever had the misfortune to meet.
Snorri Godhi August 23, 2021 at 1:50 pm
From Unz flagship content, “American Pravda” series
“Jews did 9/11”
“Jews killed JFK”
“Jews control drug trade and organized crime”
“Jews started WW2”
“Jews faked the holocaust”
“Jews did the Russian Revolution”
“Jews worship Satan”
“Jews drink blood of Christian children”
“No, we are not antisemitic at all, Jews are very fine people!”
You said previously that Never Trumpers are not your side.
Do you see Unz Review people as “your side”? Do you think they are the wave of the future?
Answering this will also address Perry’s concerns.
I wrote:
Now i expand on that:
It is impossible for ANYONE to see “Unz Review people” as on their side, because they seem to have one main thing in common: nobody else will publish them.
(They all seem to have an anti-war attitude, too.)
Take Ted Rall, some of whose cartoons i have found funny. He is so far ‘to the left’ that he called for Obama to resign because he did not fulfill ‘leftist’ expectations. That does not prove that he is not an antisemite, but i’d think that, if he were, Wikipedia would point it out.
How many people do you think consider both Ron Unz and Ted Rall to be on “their side”?
And btw i do not read only what people on “my side” write. From Plato via Hobbes to our time, the “other side” (or rather, other sides) can be correct about sociological issues. Their error is in drawing the wrong implications for policy.
Can you provide a link where i can find that list of articles about Jews? I tried and found a completely different list of articles. Did you use a search engine?
Perry:
Am i correct in understanding this as:
Many antisemites think that American Jews support Israel, but many other antisemites do not, generally the latter are nastier.
If so, why do you think it is so?
Snorri Godhi August 23, 2021 at 2:44 pm
Can you provide a link where i can find that list of articles about Jews?
https://www.unz.com/page/american-pravda-series/
Guess who killed JFK?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/
Guess who did 9/11?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-911-conspiracy-theories/
Guess who faked the holocaust?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
Guess who is responsible for the Russian revolution?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-bolshevik-revolution-and-its-aftermath/
Guess who is drinking blood of Gentile babies?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/
and many, many more
here is link to Unz flagship articles, my longer answer was eaten by moderation
https://www.unz.com/page/american-pravda-series/
Oh yes, but none of the titles that you listed is there!
trying again
guess who killed JFK?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/
guess who faked the holocaust?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
guess who did 9/11?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-911-conspiracy-theories/
guess who drinks blood of gentile babies?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/
guess who started WW2?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/
guess who was the true hero of WW2?
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-how-hitler-saved-the-allies/
there is much more quality content, cannot be arsed post more links 😉
Thank you, i thought that one could always see from the title if an article is antisemitic 🙂
After my first comment today, i did find the very long article on Holocaust denial, and skimmed through it.
It is very cleverly written… if the intent is to slowly lure some readers (can’t lure them all) into thinking that there is more to Holocaust denial than meets the eye.
And readers who stop reading early on, might actually think that Ron Unz rejects Holocaust denial: that was my first impression.
But it is interesting that Murray Rothbard is mentioned as a Holocaust denier.
Snorri Godhi August 23, 2021 at 4:07 pm
But it is interesting that Murray Rothbard is mentioned as a Holocaust denier.
It is old smear, both by leftists and by holocaust deniers who want to “claim” him, but there is no evidence for it at all.
Even wikipedia had call him only being “culpably indulgent” of Holocaust denial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard#Historical_revisionism
see long fight in Wikipedia talk page where no one was able actually cite any Rothbard’s writing where he denies or doubts the holocaust.
What I wrote was not clear… I meant many US Jews support Israel, but many do not, and the anti-Israel US Jews I have met have been pretty much all vile shits. And by that I do not mean “US Jews who do not support Israel are vile shits because they do not support Israel” but rather there seems to be a Pearson coefficient close to 1 between “people who are unusually vile” and “US Jews who do not support Israel” 🤪
Thank you, Perry.
Maybe i should clarify. I wrote:
What needs clarification is that:
1. by ‘support’, i meant effective support, not just verbal support;
2. i also meant net support of the Jewish community, not a head count of Jews who support Israel.
In practice, this means the support (or opposition) of Jews in the American ruling-class: Soros, Bloomberg, Zuckerberg, Brin & Page (the latter only half-Jewish), Krugman, Chomsky … if most of them are objectively opposed to Israel, then it is delusional to think that American Jews support Israel, no matter what little support middle-class Jews might be able to contribute.
I like reading unz. For the plurality of opinion and entertainment value, if nothing else (I admit it, I’m trashy like that). And there are golden nuggets here and there.
If I may digress… The Holocaust article on the number of actual deaths by Ron Unz was interesting. For sure we know the killings took place (Auschwitz). As many as 6 million, as is often cited? Perhaps not.
But is it any less of a tragedy if it was 600,000 vs 6 million? Or a mere six vs six million?
Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees.
I can leave Unz himself, but he does host an interesting group.
I see the forest just fine. And the signs nailed to the trees in that forest are unmistakable messages saying “Yes, it is less of a tragedy.”
Just to give you an idea of why i follow Steve Sailer, even on the Unz site, i’ll provide a link that won’t take much of your time, is filled with black humor, and informative about why the American-trained Afghan army lost to the Taliban. I suggest looking at the second clip before the first.
Here is the link.
The first clip is from what i consider one of the greatest movies of all time: The Man Who Would Be King.
My review.
I mention that, because Steve Sailer was inspired by that story (The Kipling novella and the Huston movie) to address 2 questions, **before** the engagement with the Taliban in 2001:
I don’t know about the second answer:
I should think that the US should have stuck around at least as long as Osama was alive.
But full credit to Sailer for predicting that nation-building in Afghanistan was going to be a mess.
PS: a link to Steve Sailer’s article from 2001.
A link to his bragging about it 11 days ago.
I happened to read the 2001 article a few years later, maybe 2006.
—-
I wrote:
I trust that you understand that the jumping-jack clip doesn’t give a complete answer.
Given my view of Steve Sailer, that site seems perfect for him. I am not a fan to put it mildly.
But I do share your views about ‘The man who would be King’.