Is it too much to hope that one day these uneducated and bigoted Yorkshire folk will understand that claiming benefits, fly-tipping, littering the streets, threatening people and playing loud music all night – these were the things of which they complained – are simply expressions of cultural diversity, to be warmly embraced? Why don’t they understand that we all have to get along?
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Samizdata quote of the dayJune 16th, 2014 |
 25 comments to Samizdata quote of the day |
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Next thing you know people will start defending themselves and their property! The racist swine!
What exactly are the Police for again?
Oh yes, to protect the newcomers against the indigenous.
John Galt,
The Police and Legal system are there to protect the criminal class.
Which seems to be pretty much what the indiginous proles are complaining about. Just they think that being noisy, smelly and foreign late at night is a crime.
Having lived near Travellers for many years I suspect they are actually more concerned about being robbed and/or had their property used a garbage dump, and then been threatened with a thumping for daring to object. Anyone who thinks such folk are just free spirited mobile libertarians needs to go live next to some for a few weeks and then report back if they’re still of that opinion 😉
Off topic, but can anybody enlighten me about the etymology of fly-tipping? Is it tipping-on-the-fly?
There you go, Tedd.
Tedd,
I assume it derives from ‘fly-by-night’ combined with ‘tipping’.
Alisa:
Thanks. The dumb thing is I actually went to that page to confirm the meaning, but completely missed the part where it answered my question about its derivation. D’oh!
There is a vast difference between people coming to join a culture (or live loyally alongside it) and those who are fundamentally hostile to it.
The French Protestants who came to England in the 17th century are an example of the former thing, and the Angels, Saxons and Jutes who destroyed post Roman Britannia are an example of the second.
Only a lunatic thinks that the second group (those who are fundamentally hostile) should be celebrated by the people who face their arrival and increase in numbers.
The modern attitude (that a people should celebrate the increase in numbers of their enemies) is indeed worthy of sarcasm.
However, perhaps Western culture has rotted anyway (perhaps its foundations have decayed away – leaving only a hollow shell), in which case the enemies are NOT to blame for the death of the West (in Yorkshire or anywhere else), because the West is already dead.
One can not be responsible for murdering what is already dead.
The question is are the fundamental (foundational) cultural principles of the West already dead? As P.E. Moore (the American tutor of the American-British T.S. Eliot) feared (as long ago as the 1930s Moore feared that Britain had become a hollow shell – with people (at least the elite – but the decay already starting to spread to the people) not longer believing in the foundational principles.
Is all we are left with just “banality” and “soap opera”. Endless “irony” and “humour” masking the void?
If so then the West is indeed already dead – and the Islamic newcomers (and the younger generations born in the West) can NOT be justly blamed for killing the West.
It is not murder to burn a corpse.
Not all of us are ready to run away and whimper, mate. I’m very much a believer in a kind word and a crowbar even is such notions give the Westminster set the vapours.
As someone hailing originally from one of countries that are the main exporter of Gypsies to hallowed Albion, and having lived for approx. 8 years (ages 6 through 14 – 1982 through 1990) in an apartment block that had no Romas, and next to one that had approx 30% Roma households, I can entertain you with some insight. Disclaimer: I am not a fan of stereotyping people based on ethnicity, or generalizing from small samples, but I also do not completely ignore anecdata or walk in West Philadelphia alone at night.
1) Back then and there, the Roma were not known as “Roma”, but as “Цигани” (tsigani), which is how they are known in the Slavic, Baltic, and Germanic languages, and also in Portuguese, Romanian, and Hungarian. The name derives from Byzantine Greek, and means “untouchables”.
2) Prior to 1980, the majority of the Gypsies were semi-nomadic. This sounds very historical/sociological, and the reality of it was they would move in clans (“katuni”), settle some place in tents/horsecarts/abandoned houses, create a public health/security mess, and leave, whether chased away or left to their own devices. Their primary source of income was pan-handling, theft/fencing, and making and selling illegal alcohol (“rakiya”). Side note 1: if you drink the stuff they sell, I admire your courage. Side note 2: they are not coming to take your jobs – a Gypsy holding a job is… well, I am sure they exist, but no one I know has seen one. I am also not aware of any other culture where the value of a bride (average age 14) is very, very directly affected by how skilled at pick-pocketing she is.
3) In the 1980’s, the Bulgarian gov’t made attempts – often pretty ham-handedly executed – to integrate Gypsies in society. Hence, the aforementioned apartment building with Romas in it. The amount of trash tossed directly out of balconies and windows was quite impressive. One girl from that building was in my 4th grade class, and as a Young Pioneer leader (age 10) I had the “privilege” of going to her home with a teacher to find out why she (age 13) had stopped coming to school. Turned out she was pregnant; no carpeting or wall covering – only bare concrete; there was a smoldering bonfire in the middle of the living room; dad was in jail for stabbing his brother on suspicion that he’d slept with her mother; the mother did not speak a word of Bulgarian. By the the gag-inducing stench in the apartment and the flies everywhere I guesses an animal had been butchered in the living room.
4) I am sure women have it worse in other cultures, but seeing a woman (wife) punched in the eye, then in the stomach, and the kicked in the back a couple of times while curled on the ground by a 250 lbs man is blood-curdling. Never found out what the reason was – she was wailing and he was yelling in their language. Bonus: happened on New Year’s Eve.
5) As children, we were out playing a lot – easily 10 hours a day during the summer. Never played with Gypsy kids. Not because we were shunning them – although I’d be lying if I claimed we were not somewhat afraid of Gypsies as a concept – they just never came out to play. And there were LOTS of them – the gov’t paid a monthly stipend for each child, and condoms were one thing you did not find in the trash. Yes, we kids loved digging through the trash, before you ask – do not ask about the epidemiological implications, but I like to think it’s part of the reason I have a remarkably robust immune system. Also, draw your own conclusions about socialization and integration.
6) @Bill B. re crowbars: I advice caution and mental preparation. If you are not prepared for a certain level of violence and a certain type of mentality, you’ll be at a severe disadvantage. The average Gypsy man you are likely to face has probably been in more street fights in a year than you have been in your whole life, and he will not fight by the Marquess of Queensberry Rules. I have witnessed, from the safety of our balcony, an incident where two Gypsies were arguing – one waving around a 20-inch piece of rebar, and the other one a bicycle chain. The chain-guy “sucker-whipped” the rebar-guy right across the face, and proceeded to hit him with the chain about 10 times (while down) over the back, head, arms, and legs. I am not even sure how one survives this – humans are tough.
I hope I have not come across as a raging racist, which I assure you I am not. I do think, though, that giving the benefit of doubt is not the same as ignoring reality. Often (definitely not always) stereotypes persist because they are true, albeit unfair to an individual. YMMV.
Best.
It’s a pity the gypsies seem so anti-sociable, since their lifestyle could be seen as an attractive one to a libertarian- anti-authoritarian, refusing to conform, having your own language, etc.
It’s a pity the gypsies seem so anti-sociable, since their lifestyle could be seen as an attractive one to a libertarian- anti-authoritarian, refusing to conform, having your own language, etc.
…and dependent mainly on theft and state handouts to maintain that lifestyle.
Well, if you’re going to bring facts to the argument, I’m leaving!
Maybe you missed the “lived near Travellers for many years” bit 😉
It’s amusing, Rod Liddle in his rant against the Roma, describes the lifestyle of the Pikeys. A separate and totally different blight on the recipient.
Totally interchangeable I reckon.
“Totally interchangeable”
Pikeys, without intervention by way of providing travelers’ sites, generally move on of their own volition.
With Roma, you do.
I recently read Lavengro by George Borrow (published 1851). It’s in part a memoir of several months drifting about England, often in the company of Gypsies.
They are colorful, generous, and (as now) habitual liars, thieves, and swindlers.
The toxic elements in Gypsy culture are extremely deep-rooted. The welfare state may have aggravated these tendencies, but they clearly predate modernity, and have persisted through vast social change.
There are other cultures with deep-rooted, pre-modern toxicities. I wonder how anarchist/open-borders libertarians would cope with mass immigration of such people into the areas they live in.
It is *vastly* simpler to deal with such things within a libertarian paradigm. Firstly, more people are armed and the right to defend yourself against someone threatening you is unambiguous. Secondly, property rights are unambiguous.
Thus I suspect the mass influx will be from the places where trespassing can get you ejected in short order by people who do that kind of thing for a living (think ‘Pinkertons’) at gunpoint if required, and to the places where not only does the state subsidise your lifestyle, trespass means you get maybe perhaps eventually get evicted after a lengthy legal process and where property right are weak.
The picture that will shock France? Profound Gallic shrug seems more likely.
I’m guessing some people got sick of taking their shit day after day after day, bloke.
Here’s quote of the day material:
“The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive”
Given in an article by the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health bowing down and worshipping the NHS as the world’s best healthcare system.
@BillB
I’ve seen the Roma women sitting on the pavement, begging, outside Lille (Flanders) Station. I’ve watched the police (black uniforms, para boots, black gloves, flak vests) politely request them to desist & move on. Watched them crack heads with a rifle butt & drag them off by the hair when they didn’t. I watched. The French ignored it, stepping over the legs of screaming women as they passsed.