… Gunpowder treason and plot!
I shall be going out tonight to give that Catholic boy Guy Fawkes a rousing send off on this most politically incorrect of nights.
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Remember, remember the 5th of November…November 5th, 2004 |
 29 comments to Remember, remember the 5th of November… |
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TO: Perry de Havilland
RE: Guy (Guido) Fawkes
Okay. I’m ignorant. Please educate me.
Got a URL handy?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Always willing to celebrate the B’Day (nothing to do with that french toilet device), of a fellow scorpio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_night
“Bonfire Night, also known as Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes Night or Fireworks Night, is a celebration (but not a public holiday) which takes place on the evening of the 5th of November every year in the United Kingdom (and New Zealand). It celebrates the failure of the Gunpowder Plot, in which a group of Catholic conspirators attempted to blow up the British Houses of Parliament on that date in 1605.”
And there was a time when educated Americans would know that. Of course, there was a later time when educated Americans could google it, but google is broken, I suppose.
All i can say, as a (post) catholic, is that it is a good thing that guy fawkes wasn’t Islamic, or Jewish, or there goes your celebration – gunpowder plot, or not 🙂
As an aside: I wonder if the bonfires raged in England on the 31st Oct, before Guy Fawkes day became established, in other words is this a secular appropriation of a Celtic feast?
I don’t think the PeeCee opinion makers of the liberal Guardianista elite really care if Catholics are offended by Guy Fawkes Day. Catholics are hardly a sacred cow to them, except maybe Irish ones who are connected to the IRA.
Now, if you wanted to celebrate the victory of Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours. . .the BBC and The Guardianistas would wet their pants in a heartbeat. That would REALLY be politically incorrect wouldn’t it?
eoin:
“Penny for the Guy” parallels “Trick or Treat”. Definitely a secular appropriation of something. Maybe Succoth?
TO: eoin
RE: Education
“…there was a time when educated Americans would know that. Of course, there was a later time when educated Americans could google it, but google is broken, I suppose.” — eoin
Chalk one down for the NEA and our colonial parochialism.
Thanks and Regards,
Chuck(le)
And on the same day that the North East Assembly idea blew up in Prescott’s face
You lot are terrified of everything aren’t you?
Your drivel will not be present in the fossil record.
Go polish your guns.
Martin
Two cheers for Guido, and his nearly-terrorists.
Because they left us with a nice night out to put in the calendar, and because it is always nice to knock Big Government.
However, it sure is incorrect, as Perry said. Because GF and his team were trying to impose a minority, foreign-backed government on the English people, by force.
Ring any bells, peeps? These days, he and his symps would be whisked to Guantanamo before their matches had burnt down….
TO: John Ellis
RE: A Stay at Gitmo
“These days, he and his symps would be whisked to Guantanamo before their matches had burnt down….” — John Ellis
And that would probably be a LOT better than being drawn-quartered-eviscerated-casterated and beheaded in public, neh?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
John Ellis,
These days, he and his symps would be whisked to Guantanamo before their matches had burnt down….
Considering the protracted, gruesome and terminal punishment that was meted out to the Gunpowder plotters, they would have been very relieved indeed to have been shipped to Guantanamo instead.
Appears that Chuck Pelto is not the only one who lacks knowledge of this country’s history – and at least he has a good excuse!!
Just click on the picture of Guy Fawkes and all will be revealed.
TO: Perry de Havilland
RE: Pic-Links
Thanks….
…nice touch. I don’t recall it being there before.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
TO: David Carr
RE: Ignorance!
“Appears that Chuck Pelto is not the only one who lacks knowledge of this country’s history – and at least he has a good excuse!!” — David Carr
Thanks….
…I’ll blame the NEA for my lack of knowledge, vis-a-vis English history. And, as I understand it, they’re doing a LOT worse these days. I got through the public system K-12, in ’69.
At least I know a bit more than those coming out of the sewer system today. However, I’ll attribute a lot of that to the readings necessarily part of a career in the US Army.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
TO: Perry de Havilland
RE: History
I would not put it past some “disaffected Democrats” or other nefarious types to attempt something similar today, or rather 20 January 2005, around OUR ‘parliment’.
I think Cheney should take his oath of office in another city. And that such a program should be widely publicized, just to warn off any such attempt on OUR government. I’m certain that the thought of Cheney in the Oval Office would put the fear of ___ in some peoples’ minds.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Hmmm, My mind has not been devoured by the Zombies at the NEA. I was homeschooled in the surprisingly libertarian (on the issue of education) state of Illinois if you can believe it. Here in IL you can raise your children as you see fit without state interference of any kind.
Of course, you can’t own a handgun in the northern part of the state and you have to carry a special “Firearm Owners Identification Card” if you own a “legal” gun. (Generally shotguns, for hunting)
My grandfather had me reciting “Remember, Remember the 5th of November” when I was three. You can get a good primary education in the US, as long as you get it from your parents/grandparents or some private institutions.
TO: Rhukatah
RE: Not Only That
“You can get a good primary education in the US, as long as you get it from your parents/grandparents or some private institutions.” — Rhukatah
Indeed. It seems like the only place to get such an education. But it also will keep you safe from being drugged into a somnambulant good little boy or girl if teacher just doesn’t have the time/energy to deal with your youthful enthusiasm. Sort of reminds me of THX 1138.
Then again, there’s that business of those other drugs. The ones the older kids can sell you in the playground.
There’s also the advantage of not being exposed to the chance of being shot or blown to pieces.
School has changed a lot since I graduated in ’69. Mostly for the worse. MUCH worse.
RE: Gun Laws
Move to Colorado, compadre. We have open carry here and no registration, outside of PC Denver and the Peoples’ Republic of Boulder.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. The invitation is open to our compatriots in England, as well.
Eoin
And there was a time when educated Americans would know that.
Would they? I’m not so sure. If your statement is correct maybe state education is to blame? As ever, the best education is to be found outside of state institutions.
The question of how many Americans know of Guy Fawkes could be parralleled by one asking how many Britons know of the Boston Tea Party. I’d say not many.
First recorded celebration of Guy Fawke’s Night was actually on the anniversary, in 1606, and was promptly banned since it was seen as being a celebration by that most hated of all species – Catholics.
Interestingly, until 1959 it was illegal NOT to celebrate the date of Guy Fawkes arrest in England. Nowadays we are allowed to let off fireworks while pleasantly imagining Phoney being tied to a stake amid a pile of Euro referendum papers, and 5 lucky winners of Tessa Jawohl’s lottery being allowed to set matches to him …
Bonfire night these days is a wonderful excuse to burn things and have a right royal piss-up…both things are very good.
In certain parts of the country the effigy cn sometimes be seen having an EU flag pinned on its lapel. I have always considered Bonfire night a celebration akin to the 4th of July for the US. It is a celebration of the retention of independence.
TO: All
RE: Learning a Lot Here
Thanks….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
David, Chuck,
You both miss my point (perhaps not well expressed). I am not attacking Americans here, I am pointing out Mr Fawkes and his mates would be treated as terrorists these days (in those days they called it treachery or Papism), and therefore worth only two cheers, and not three.
He might otherwise be in danger of being held up as some sort of anti-Government champion by certain types of Libertarians….
Andrew,
The 4th of July parallel had never occured to me before, but I think you might be right….
TO: John Ellis
RE: Missing the ‘Point’?
“I am not attacking Americans here, I am pointing out Mr Fawkes and his mates would be treated as terrorists” — John Ellis
Hardly. Got it quite effectively.
Rather, you’re projecting, when you say I missed your point. You, apparently missed mine; gitmo would be a lot better than what Guy & Company experienced at the hands of Merry Olde England.
Or would you rather experience what they went through, as opposed to an all-expeneses paid trip to a tropical isle?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Err …no its not, and anyway who would we be celebrating our independence from, exactly? The rest of the planet tends to celebrate its independence from the UK – although I understand that some of us do celebrate on the 4th July the anniversary of getting rid of our Georgia penal colonies.
The 5th November festivities serve the principal purpose of letting us know that Catholics are .. “evil foreigners who wish nothing more than to destroy our country’s way of life”. The official view, via James 1’s Act of Parliament is that it is a holiday to celebrate “the joyful day of deliverance”.
It is interesting to note that Guy Fawkes’ Night was celebrated in New England as ‘Pope Day’, until the late 18th Century.
Well, down in Lewes, I can safely say that I was having the biggest bonfire of them all.
Some things to bear in mind are:
1. Not long before Mr Fawkes’ attempt at regime change, catholics had been burning heretical protestants under the reign of bloody Mary (aka ‘The Marian Burnings’).
2. The pope was widely seen as an enemy of national sovreignty and freedom. This was certainly partly true, and was of course greatly encouraged by various protestant monarchs in the years previous, to shore up support among a population that had only recently been informed of the joys of protestantism by Henry 8.
In Lewes, they still burn the pope in effigy, and in fact the anti-catholic imagery in general takes precedence over the anti-guy fawkes imagery.
The night is also used as an excuse for burning various hate figures, getting drunk, and generally being lawless.
Err …no its not, and anyway who would we be celebrating our independence from, exactly?
Well at the time the Pope was trying to get the UK back under the umbrella of the papacy. At the time the papacy believed it was its remit to approve or disapprove of whomever was on the throne of whatever European nation. The papacy also attempted to influence the politics of Catholic nations.
Surely keeping the nation out from under the influence of a foreign power, ie the Catholic Church is a type of retention of independence?
Chuckle,
Don’t be so sensitive about the American Gulag at Guantanamo! Few here can have any illusions about the brutality of 17th century punishments for treason, so your “point” is a trivial one.
I only mentioned it as a topical way example of terrorist-punishment – I obviously stuck a bit of a nerve…
TO: John Ellis
RE: History Lessons, Then and Now
“Don’t be so sensitive about the American Gulag at Guantanamo! Few here can have any illusions about the brutality of 17th century punishments for treason, so your “point” is a trivial one.” — John Ellis
I’m hardly sensitive. The times my rich uncle sent me to tropical lattitudes I had to work my a– off.
I only have allusions to punishments, then and now. Such things as you seem to overlook. And it’s hardly ‘trivial’, considering what happened to Guy and company.
Remembering that sort of thing is why we outlawed “cruel and usual” forms of punishments for US.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
I’ll have to come celebrate my Nov 5 birthday over there one of these years.
Did anyone toss a government surveillance camera on a pyre that night? Or are the vandals still content to whack them while wearing Tony Blair masks?