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Samizdata quote of the day – Slavery reparations is a grift, no ifs, no buts Britain did not benefit from (slave) labour anyway. We did not then have a state controlled economy, we do not now have a state controlled economy. Britain didn’t own the slaves so it’s not Britain that – even if you can prove that there should be reparations – which should pay for owning the slaves it didn’t.
This does then rather leave the reparations argument being that Barbados – or whoever – needs to go around suing, individually, the estates of those who owned slaves. Good luck with that one.
– Tim Worstall
With the small proviso that in more than a few ways, the UK does indeed now have a fairly state controlled economy, I agree with Tim as usual.
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A difficulty is that while Tim Worstall’s logic is impeccable, the current Labour administration is in thrall to post-colonial guilt psychology. Exhibit A: the foreign secretary, David Lammy. He’s a buffoon, but he’s also dangerous. The Chagos Islands deal has shown the U.K. government is stupid
By the way, I bet China has some involvement in stirring up hate towards the U.K. on this.
I wouldn’t even dignify it with that label!
In spite of the fact that I agree with his underlying sentiment completely, I can see a logic problem.
“The state”, in this scenario, is simply the common funds-collecting mechanism for all of those “things we want to do together.” (Yes, this is BS, but the system is BS.)
So a dollar – oops, pound – paid by your government as reparations is simply a dollar kicked in by each and every taxpayer.
A better idea – sell pretty helium balloons with “thank you for your service” printed on them, for a hundred pounds each, as a reparations fundraiser.
Everyone eager to help can then simply buy the balloon.
Presently the Credit Money system is being used for all sorts of things – for example, via certain bodies and organisations, it is funding a 150 Million Dollar smear campaign against Ted Cruz in Texas. 150 Million Dollars for just one Senate seat election.
But why not use the money in this way – no one had to WORK for the money, it is created from nothing (it is not gold or silver or any commodity).
So why not use it to pay these absurd “Reparations” – but NOT via the banks and other financial entities, no creating the money (from nothing) lending it out and borrowing it back again (at a higher rate of interest) – and then spending it.
No – just create the Trillions of Pounds (or whatever) and spend it on these “Reparations” – directly (without financial institutions getting to wet-their-beak in the corrupt create-from-nothing-lend-it-out-and-borrow-it-back-again-at-a-higher-rate-of-interest way they do).
And give me, Paul Marks, a few Trillion Pounds as well – I have got just as much right to “Reparations” as the people presently demanding them.
“But the money will be worthless”.
The money is going to be worthless anyway – because it is not just the race-baiting “Reparations” that are a nonsense, so is the monetary and financial system.
I say again – give me, Paul Marks, these vast amounts of money.
I have just as much right to this money as the people demanding “Reparations”.
If they are going to get free money (created from nothing) I want it as well.
“good luck with that one” about suing in the courts.
I suspect that Mr Worstall has a rather out of date view of the courts.
Modern courts are very much into “Diversity” – uniformity, “Inclusion” – exclusion, and “Social Justice” – injustice.
We have NOT quite reached the stage where the courts decide that, as a white-straight-man, Mr Worstall should have his organs removed (whilst he is still alive and conscious – why waste anesthetic) and sold, to fund “Reparations” (yes the leftist establishment could just create even more money from nothing – but they might prefer ripping out organs) – but we may not be far from it.
After all if, as the schools, universities, and media claim, white-straight-men are responsible for all the pain in the world – should they not be made to suffer?
For example, they spread “false claims” about a “Syrian refugee” (who is himself a white-straight-man – but let us not be hung up on details, not when “Social Justice” is at stake).
Turing to history – English courts repeatedly (from the early 1100s onwards – yes almost a thousand years ago) ruled that buying and selling human beings was unlawful – yet it was incredibly difficult to get any judgement to generally “stick” – the courts might free a single individual, but it was hardly practical for each individual slave to sue for their freedom through the courts.
It was not till the Mansfield judgement of 1772 that a judgement managed to get generally applied, and even then only on this island – even though Common Law was supposed to apply to the colonies.
It is not quite the same in France – where the judgement of King Louis the Tenth (back in the Middle Ages) that slavery was unlawful was couched in such harsh language (Louis was known for his temper) that it was impossible for the lawyers to “interpret” it away.
All the shysters (and the word is justified) could do is say “Louis the Tenth never mentioned French colonies” – nor did he, as there were no French colonies in his lifetime.
The idea that French law (based on natural law – as Christian legal thinkers held that natural law overrides state edicts – Roman legal thinkers, who admitted that slavery was against natural law, took the opposite point of view) did NOT apply to French colonies was, of course, absurd – but this absurdity was upheld to justify slavery in French colonies.
Slavery would have difficulty surviving without such state support – as it would be the old criminal offenses of unlawful imprisonment and assault.
It would be interesting to know how many of Lammy’s ancestors were slave masters. Probably more than most people in this country.
Anyway, if it can be established that we owe the Barbadians for this, no doubt the money – and more – can be recovered from the French since William the B@st@rd came over and installed his mates as feudal overlords. (Note that ‘serf’ means much the same as ‘slave’).
“It would be interesting to know how many of Lammy’s ancestors were slave masters.”
Which former president has slave owners in his family ancestry, the 44th or the 45th? Hint: it’s not the latter.
I recall watching a US genealogy show once where an African American family in (I think it was South Carolina) wanted to know if the story handed down that they were descended from free blacks was actually true. The genealogist (an African American) was able to confirm that their ancestors were indeed already freemen while South Carolina was still a British colony. Then she showed them a census from the early 19th century that showed not only their free ancestors but also – all the slaves they owned. The family was gobsmacked. As the genealogist explained, they were freemen and under the law perfectly entitled to own slaves. And so they did.
“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there…“
Coming out of Reconstruction (post-Civil War period of fixing things), Blacks were seemingly on a good path in relation to joining society.
Then the Democrats got hold of them as guilt props for campaigning purposes, and Black economic progress stalled and they regressed in their attainment of social acceptance. The D’s have been holding them back now for over 100 years.
So I’d charge any reparations specifically to the Democrat party, and to serious Democrats.
Paul:
As you say, the money for “reparations” could indeed just be created at the flick of a switch at the Bank of England. Money now is backed by nothing physical and can be created at will. But that will not happen because the establishment hardly wants people to realise that “money” is backed by nothing and can be created at will. Why is the government crushing us with taxes if it can just create the money? I think it is to maintain the illusion that “money” is worth something. It would let the cat out of the bag if they admitted they could create just as much of it as they wanted, at any time.
Barbados would have a stronger case if it sought reparations from Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone and the Congo, the modern-day incarnations of countries which systematically captured, enslaved and sold their African neighbours – which was at least preferable to being slaughtered or sacrificed. In addition their role in the process was unquestionably state-driven as opposed to the mercantile Europeans.
However, to paraphrase the inveterate bank robber, thats not where the money is.
My great grandfather was in the RN south sea fleet hunting down slavers for his whole navy career. Does that absolve me from paying reparations?
Daniel Hannan recently penned a thorough repudiation of reparations. Excellently argued.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/19/reparations-are-wrong-on-every-level-we-must-reject/
(Behind the paywall, but I could upload a pdf version if one of the Samizdata team could let me know how.)
I’d echo Johnathan Pearce’s observation that the current lot in office (I decline to refer to them as a government except as a term of contempt) are way too ignorant and ideological to be anything but “in thrall to post-colonial guilt psychology”.
Item: a fair number of free colored persons “owned” immediate family members, who were thereby protected from being seized and enslaved by others.
Item: there are reliable records of slave ownership, income from slave-worked plantations, and compensatory payments to slave owners. This wealth was passed down to heirs and their descendants; the process was recorded in court records and wills. Thus it is possibile to trace, quite definitely, wealth possessed today to slave exploitation. Some wealth: the proceeds of slavery have been commingled with the the profits of the industrial revolution and more recent capitalism, and have also been substantially taxed. Even so, Worstall’s proposal of suing individual inheritors is not absurd.
If it could be proven today that some article of value was stolen in 1830, would the heirs of the 1830 owner have a legitimate claim against the present possessor of the article?