I have heard it said that war is politics by other means and, similarly, that politics is war by other means.
However, it appears that some people in the USA are not really much interested in pursuing ‘the other means‘:
It’s hard to imagine a greater clash of cultures within America than that between George Bush’s Republican party and the New York left.
Ever since the announcement, in January last year, that for the first time in convention history the Republicans would be coming to Manhattan, a multi-layered conflict has been looming…..
This example, from the grassroots conservative site FreeRepublic.com, indicates that animosity is flowing freely on both sides.
“Frankly, I wouldn’t be shocked to see real street battles,” the piece says.
“The extreme left is angry. Angrier than I’ve ever seen them. And they will be made angrier still by the harsh security measures which will be required to protect the dignitaries in New York. But the right is angry too, and there will be a lot of conservatives converging in New York City for the event. If the left wants to fight, expect the right to fight back……
Sitting on a sofa, dressed like a Manhattan bike messenger, one student who identified himself simply as William said he was spending the week attending a raft of different group meetings on the protest.
After he was arrested in Miami during the recent Free Trade Area talks while simply walking down the street, he said he was looking for a more meaningful encounter in August with the NYPD:
“If you are going to get arrested, it might as well be for something rather than nothing,” he said, with a disturbing cheeriness.
Yes, well, it all looks very strange from this side of the pond where partisan politics is still a remarkably genteel business. The occasional caustic comment is about as confrontational as it gets over here. The very idea of Tory matrons from the Shires fighting pitched battles with delegates from the Teachers Union on the ‘mean streets’ of Bournemouth is just too hilarious and far-fetched to even contemplate.
Is this a reflection of something very different about the nature of the British polity? Is it because there is much more of a polite consensus over here? Or is simply because there is so much less at stake in the British electoral process?
Well, David, it’s probably because American are so much more violent than Brits. That’s why your football matches are characterised by the pleasant and courteous exchange of sportsmanlike good wishes between the fans of various sides, and your industrial actions, say for example the miner’s strikes of the 70s and 80s, were so exemplary in the peaceful interaction between strikers and police.
That being said, the real question here is not why the left is expected to raise a bit of a fuss in New York, but why the right is expected to fight back. Or rather, why American conservatives will fight but British ones would not be expected to.
“Or is simply because there is so much less at stake in the British electoral process?”
That’s it !
You wouldn’t expect Tory lefties to fight vehemently against Labor lefties ?
Or because there is so little left to fight for!….
Jim,
You know full well that I have nothing but contempt for people over here who try to peddle this ridiculous nonsense about ‘violent Americans’.
As a matter of fact, I think it is quite healthy that some people in America feel so strongly about the America they want to live in that they are prepared to fight for their visions.
I was remarking on just how different party politics is over here – cloying consense and nothing to be the least bit heated over.
And the funny thing is that event the soccer/industrial violence that characterised the 1970’s and 1980’s seems to have died away too.
David,
I think it has to do with the target. George Bush and the Reupicans in New York make a nice target for the global left in a way that thingummy Smith and the Conservatives in Blackpool did not, especially in a cold and wet October.
The interesting thing about these protests is how similar they are emotionally to the Nazi Brown Shirt smashing of Jewish shop windows in the early 1930s. The present mob are both less disciplined and ideologically focussed which makes it easier to mobilise greater numbers.
I cannot recall if there has ever been a major standoff confrontation between Tories and Labour supporters. The appetite for aggression is not there.
But let us not forget the poll tax riots of the 1990s. Not a good moment in British history.
And as David noted, behaviour at football grounds is heaps better than it was. The footballers have taken over in the bad behaviour stakes instead.
I think rioting can be fun and can understand parties on both sides looking forward to a Manhattan melee.
I recall being in a few riots myself over the years. My favourite riot was easily in the late 80s when hundreds of Red/Green Lefty Thugs found themselves counter-charged by hundreds of Korean Moonie Martial Artists (and me) in front of the Berlin Wall.
The Red/Green Thugs thought they’d intimidate these little Korean guys and girls who were demonstrating peacefully, chanting for the wall to come down (“Die Mauer muss weg!”), by throwing rocks and bottles at them whilst squaring up menacingly for a battle. I thought to myself that this situation was going to get interesting.
The Berlin riot police were powerless to intervene, because technically this was taking place on East German soil – immediately in front of the wall on the western side was still communist real estate.
A drum started beating a slow boom from our side, the drumming got louder and faster, then suddenly the Moonies (quickly followed by a suprised Gideon Sherman* and me) ran at a now stunned collection of a hundred or so Red/Green Thugs. Full scale battle starts up, and I find myself in the thick of it getting a few blows from my Moonie allies in the confusion (I was wearing a bomber jacket, had a white streak in my hair and am not Korean, so some friendly fire was understandable).
The Moonies having completely suprised the Red/Green Lefties drove them right back to Checkpoint Charlie, the Berlin riot police might have been watching in amusement but the East German guards took their machine gun safeties off – I’m not sure if it was to stop their smelly comrades coming across or karate-kicking-Korean anti-Marxist Moonies entering the socialist paradise. The Red/Green mob scattered to the taunts of the Moonies and the West Berlin riot police, whom I suspect thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle, encouraged them on their way.
Bruised and battered I was full of admiration for the Moonies – the Rev Moon might be nuts, but his acolytes were no pacifists.
*son of Sir Alfred Sherman, founder of the Centre for Policy Studies.
Just having a little fun, David, and anticipating the inevitable violent-American stereotypes that such a comment would probably draw from the woodwork.
In general, conservatives in the English-speaking nations are people who have better things to do than get involved in mass violence and risk wasting time afterwards in police custody. But after 9-11 there are a lot of pissed-off people who aren’t amused by leftish bullshit any more.
The Left has had its own way in the US for so long they literally cannot believe that they are no longer top dog. The peasants have revolted and emphatically rejected their elitist utopian ideas loudly in their peasant-like talk radio shows, their Fox network chat shows, and their “right-wing” blogs.
The elitists can’t quite believe what they are seeing with their own eyes; hence they have turned to violence to express their own frustration. The peasants after all, are supposed to following THEM — THEY are the “good guys.” How on earth did things get so twisted about?
It was Bush who did it. He used some sort of magic potion to dethrone them and get the peasants on his side. It was all smoke and mirrors, it was all so UNFAIR.
They boil and seethe and nurse their hateful grudges. Then they explode.
I wouldn’t write as if rioting has already happened. It might — goodness knows I’ve never seen the US so politically polarized, and ratty about it — but pouring into the street really isn’t something the right does a lot of, let alone become violent once it gets there. The folly of measuring the political climate by the size of each side’s street demonstrations is that demonstrating in the street is an intrinsically leftist activity. The right has tried its hand at it recently in the US, but they tend to mill about confusedly waving little flags and looking faintly ridiculous.
I would take a sneaking delight in it if it happened (provided nothing got too out of hand), but I’m betting on the usual easily-quelled vandalism from imported rent-a-hippies.
I just hope both sides stay away from Grand Central & midtown.
They have no idea how violently commuters at rush hour will react when provoked.
When the RNC makes a game called Tax Invaders as an actual campaign tool, do you really expect the political debate to be polite and mature?
I don’t think there’s anything “genteel” about having your throat cut or buildings blown up by people who are determined to kill you no matter how appeasing you are. These people are out to destroy us because we are not followers of Allah. They have a cultural mandate to convert us or wipe us out. In any case, I’m glad my president isn’t genteel, at least by British standards.
There is a joke making the rounds – Q: How come only three conservatives showed up at the protest?
A: the rest have Jobs.
More interesting (albeit not reported) is that when the Democrats hold their convention in Boston, the police do not expect “conservative protest group violence” at all.
That’s because the only protest likely in Boston will come from the extreme Left — for whom the Democrats aren’t sufficiently socialist/Communist.
American conservatives, by and large, protest by voting (or witholding their vote), not by silly street protests. In a fair competition, Republicans outvote Democrats every time: hence the “get out the vote” efforts by Democrats, which include buses to the polls, bribery of the homeless, outright voter fraud, and so on.
Lest I am accused of exaggeration on this, it should be noted that ever single instance of voter fraud since 1950 has involved Democrats, and not Republicans.
But then again, the Left’s motives are so laudable that they get a free pass.
Turds.
The original poster, purporting to be from London, wrote:
“The occasional caustic comment is about as confrontational as it gets over here. ”
He thus reveals himself to be new in town, not having been here on MayDay ’01.
Thankfully, London MayDay has been cancelled this year:
Moonbats Give Up, Clowns Persevere
Partisan politics a genteel Euro business?
11 March – Madrid.
So far the only difference between Spain and the Brits is luck.
This is all so 1937. Or Sept 10th if you like.
I am reminded of an excellent t-shirt:
Any protests are going to get violent because of the far left. Seattle showed that most Americans can identify this (and not some fuck-the-police brutality bullshite).
So, I welcome violence in hopes that it helps Kerry lose.
BUT, if it get’s really violent, I’m not sure what the consequences might be, but it would be huge. Californians need not wait for the BIG_ONE…the coasts will sink off the the American mainland all by themselves.
I for one completely expect at least one person to be killed a-la Genoa. This might make the situation complicated.
http://while-true.blogspot.com/
Hmmm.
Amusing subject. Speaking as a fairly serious Conservative I have to say that I’m not willing to put up with any crap during the GOP convention. If someone’s having a protest and blocking my path, then I’m going to go on through and see what happens.
Should be interesting for this ex-marine.
Paul d s – What a fun story! I liked the bit about the friendly fire.
Susan – Yes, it’s the same in Britain. You say they eventually explode. Is that a promise?
M Simon – Your post is puzzling: Partisan politics a genteel Euro business?
11 March – Madrid.
The bombs in Madrid were set off by N African Islamic terrorists. How does this equate to partisan politics on the continent of Europe? And even more remote, how does it relate to British party politics?
Poll tax riots, anyone? Good job the majority of UK DOESN’T have guns…:)
What Kim said. The violence such at it might be, will be instigated by the usual white-bread suburban anarchist types who ‘want a revolution’.
Its not like there are going to be Freikorps going round shooting whatever passes for a Rosa Luxemburg these days.
What was that Monty Python skit about ‘whipping up counter revolutionary terror’ or something like that? Heh.
However, I wouldn’t be suprised to see some analog to Leon Czolgosz trying someting.
I doubt if that is the case. There’s an old saying, “In academe the fights are so bloody because the stakes are so low.”
I think that the left is trying to drum up a fight because then they can claim to be oppressed. If there is a conflict between the left and the right it will be seen more as casual disregard from the Republicans. “Your honor, the freak just dove under my SUV. I didn’t have time to stop.”
I think it’s nostalgia for 1968. (The riots in Chicago outside the Democratic Party convention…)
I too echo what Kim said, and it is symptomatic of the basic ideological differences between American liberals and conservatives — (sweeping generalization on) — the libs are externally motivated, looking to others and the government to problem solve and/or blame, and the conservatives are intrinsically motivated, looking to solve problems by *gasp* working, voting, and trying to be responsible members of their communities. (end sweeping generalization)
Well, there’s been a low level civil war going on in this country for about the last 15 years. It really got going with the Clinton impeachment and the 2000 election. All of which was preceded by 20 years of “infiltration” by the Left. I mean, Tom Hayden is a friggin’ legislator here in California and he’s about as far Left as you can get. Having known a bunch of those people since the 1960’s (I was a Democrat in my previous life), they have not only taken over the Democratic party, they will not rest until they have brought down this country and its institutions (in 1972, I listened to a Commie acquaintance frenetically rant on for about 30 minutes about how much he hated the US). I suspect what has the Left really upset is that the election of George Bush (and the likely re-election) has frustrated their timetable. After all, the 1960s radicals are getting old and many may not live to see their cherished “heaven on earth” takeover of the U.S. They are getting increasingly desperate.
“The extreme left is angry. Angrier than I’ve ever seen them. And they will be made angrier still by the harsh security measures which will be required to protect the dignitaries in New York…”
Dignitaries? I thought it was a political convention.
– Josh
Not necessarily, Kim. I read there’s going to be a Viet Nam Vet protest against Kerry in Boston.
This should be interesting.
And the caterers are complaining that the parties are too cheap, some are pulling out because the limit is $100/head for the w(h)ining and dining.
Steven’s right, that’s part of it. One last big gasp of glory.
“The police are here to preserve disorder.”
Richard I Daley – 1968 Dem Convention in Chicago. Can’t remember whether it was before or after they started bashing heads in. And the commies/Weathermen/etc. wanted it to erupt and erupt it did.
Ahhh, the good old days.
I don’t know what the college kids in the NYC area or around the country have planned, but as for the grownups — I expect most of them will avoid the Madison Square Garden area like the plague. As someone noted above, the first priority of New York commuters is to get where they’re going. A mere political convention won’t change that.
I’d encourage anyone coming to New York who’s full of hostility toward people whose only sin is to disagree with them to take a quick subway ride down to Ground Zero. If that doesn’t turn their mind to better and more important things, I don’t know what will.
Here’s my bet; There might be big talk prior to the Convention but when everything is over the talk will have just been talk. Feel free to laugh at me if my prediction’s wrong. *^_^*