In many ways I would not get so put out by the machinations of the French political class if they were just more upfront about what motivates them. If they just came out and said “we could not care less about the fact the Iraqi people are ruled by a mass murderous tyrant, we are just interested in protecting our economic sweetheart deals”, I would still think that was appalling, but at least one could hardly help but admire their brazen pursuit of self-interest at the expense of others. What is another 20 years of Ba’athism when a sweet below-market oil deal is at stake? No (Ba’athist) blood for (French) oil, please?
But no, Dominique de Villepin and Jaques Chirac actually have the bare faced effrontery to claim the moral high ground when anyone with a passing knowledge of French economics and a ‘who’s who’ of French interests has been able to see what is really going on from day one. It is a measure of the web of corruption that lies over the French media and chattering classes that ‘The Big Lie’ is accepted so widely in France. Perhaps Colin Powell should have just responded to one of de Villepin ambushes in the UN during the lead up to the recent Gulf War by simply reading out a list of the names of the great and good in France and their interests in Iraq, without further comment.
Not that the French political class are alone of course, not by any means… they are just the most cynically sanctimonious about it.
The French media spend too much time covering the real, perceived or imaginary failings of American for anyone to even notice or care our own. Exploiting convenient scapegoats is the oldest trick in the world.
To make it real fun, 90% of French TV content is produced by three companies. Interestingly, most French people believe the US media to be bad and biased due to concentration…In this respect, the coverage of Iraq in France was, and still is amazing for the total lack of debate around it. Everybody agrees with everybody else, from far right to far left, and dissenters essentially get the boot, like Alain Hertoghe at La Croix. Result : almost 90% of the population supporting Chirac’s “principled position”. If you thought such polling scores only occurred in places like North Korea, this whole affair was rather fascinating.
And the Executive Life Scandal is heating up in California. From the WSJ last week
The frogistan taxpayer could be on the hook for a few billion.
hehehehehehehe
Sadly the French do not seem to realise that they cannot pour hate over an entire people for decade after decade without eventually getting a reaction.
So far it has been mild, a few nasty words, a bit of a boycott and a certain chill in official relations.
Eventually however it will come to war. Bloody violent and probably nuclear. Americans are learning to hate the French the same way they hate us, mutual hate like this is only resolved by violence.
De Villepin is a nutter, he may actually believe all his guff.
Chirac is a different case. I would not wish to risk Mr de Havilland’s hospitality to describe what I really think of Chirac.
I think there are two aspects to the problem: the role of the Ecole Nationale de l’Administration (ENA) and the epidemic of corruption which is not helped by a rotten system of financing political parties.
When Europeans attack America, it’s “reasoned criticism”, when Americans attack Europe, it’s “American arrogance”.
The Rwandan President blamed France for the genocide, and the French threw a hissy fit.
Strangely, the Rwandan leader’s comments and French reaction were not mentioned much in the media.
Also note how America was blamed for not intervening in Rwanda, yet Belgium (who pulled troops out) has not been criticised at all.
The EU should take the fall for Rwanda, not the US.
Americans are learning to hate the French the same way they hate us…
Who’s “us”, spacer?
Actually, I can’t think of any country that Americans unequivicably hate. One reason is that Americans invariably distinquish between a population and its governing officials. Americans are inclined to believe, e.g., that if Chirac and Villepin were to take their billions and retire to Argentina, all would be well between the US and France.
I lived in France off and on for more than 20 years and I speak their language. They hate Americans with a real passion. Lead on by their elites.
Americans are very slow to respond to this, but given enough time and enough provocation they will. Remember how Americans learned to hate the Japanese in 1941 -1945.
Chirac and De Villipin are a small part of the problem, the only thing that truly brings the french left and right together is yankee bashing.
Strange how there is no scrutiny of France’s colourful foreign policy, which differs from US policy in that there is not even an attempt at idealism; it’s completely cynical and opportunistic.
A country that, were it as powerful as America, would be far more imperialist than America has ever or will ever be.
Are Dominique De Villepin and The Merovingian related?
The similarities in world view and voice, and appearance are striking.
“Where others see chance, I see cost.”
Yeah, the French hate us. This is of concern only to Democrats and other internationalists. For the rest of us, the “they hate us” statement is generally met with the response “too bad”, or the more cynical “take a number”.
Then we go on vacation to the Algarve rather than the Riviera, fly though LHR rather than CDG, buy Chilean rather than French wine, and local instead of French chocolate.
That may not sound like much of a response, except that if multiplied by tens- or hundreds of thousands, which is becoming the case), it will eventually hurt ther French economy.
Tourism and wine are the two major French “products” (other than malice and cynicism), so when the largest consumer market in the world says “No thanks, Pierre”, it’s not something to be laughed at.
So croak, croak, little Froggies. We’ll see how this all shakes out, in the end.
This is Dostoevsky on his first trip west and his initial impressions of Parisians:
“The Parisian loves to do business, but it seems that even in doing business and in skinning you alive in his shop like a chicken, he skins you not, as in the old days, for the sake of profit, but out of virtue, in the name of some sacred necessity.”
Now, I don’t think that greed is a particularly or characteristically French trait, but I do think that for the past year and a half the French have been making the case that dressing it up as moral grandeur is.
The quote is from Joseph Frank’s biography.
I agree with George. Many Americans have built up a strong dose of skepticism at best, or contempt at worst, for the French government and the country’s media. But it is nowhere near the quasi-constant demonization of the US in general, and Bush in particular, inflicted on the average French citizen. Most Americans are – thankfully – above this level of ranting, bitter, collective stupidity.
In the end, America has learned to not care about France. In its bid to be noticed, Chirac has simply ensured France matters as much as it should in American eyes: that is, not at all. It has become irrelevant.
De Villepin is not a nutter. Just a political slave. He was the one who advised Chirac to call a new general election years ago, bringing the Socialists into government. You would have expected the end of his career at that point. But Chirac has been around the block a few times and rightly figured he could use De Villepin instead, by promoting him. Needless to say, the guy owes Chirac absolutely everything at this stage and will do and say anything for him. The whole thing is downright Faustian.
Um George, were you speaking of South America when you said “Americans invariably distinquish between a population and its governing officials”?
Certainly you were not accurately representing the citizens of the largest nation occupying North America — or you were doing so with respect to some alternate reality version.
Americans often have great difficulty in separating the personal from the political; when the only ‘personal’ they confront is the persona of the political, they naturally conflate the two, and hate the totality, without even being aware that there is a ‘totality’ made up of discrete, and differentiable, bits.
warmest regards,
Shirely Knott
That’s certainly interesting, Shirley. At least I’ve no doubt it would be if I understood what you’re talking about. But I’m American and, as everyone knows, Americans are not big on nuance.
Quite simply, she’s saying “Oh really? I don’t see that.”
…and I don’t either.
Among those I interact with who don’t take a particular interest in politics and international affairs, there is no distinction made between the people of a nation and the State that governs them. Why do you think people have such a hard time grasping the benefits of international trade?
(Note: occasionally the distinction is made when the government in question is blatantly totalitarian, e.g. people don’t think North Koreans hate us)
Drumming up hostilty to the US also deflects attention away from the fact that if Chirac were not President, he would be doing a re-run of Papillon.
Really, a lot of this frog-bashing represents mere sour grapes because it is now becoming increasingly clear that they were right about the overall wisdom of attacking Iraq, whereas you guys were wrong:-)
I don’t see any WMDs, and this month has already seen the death of more U.S. soldiers than any since the invasion started.
Too bad the American rednecks were too dumb to listen to the frogs, who (after all) have more experience with Arabs than the White House’s naive idealists do.
MARCU$
Shirley, I totally disagree. I have lived 9 years in America and everybody around me knows full well where I’m from. I’ve never had a problem and never witnessed any act of so-called ‘francophobia’ – what a crock of shit that was – beyond the infamous freedom fries. (Never mind these were invented in Belgium, but I digress). On the other hand, I had not spent 6 weeks in Europe back in 2002 that I was told to go back to the U.S. To which I answered I certainly was going back there, as soon as I got a new visa, thank you very much.
So from where I sit, and when I compare the treatment of one Frenchman – me – over so many years, with the treatment of the same person in Europe, where I only had to superficially agree with supposedly American views to be told to take a hike and cross the Atlantic, I have to strongly disagree with your comment.
Never mind the litany of other facts that show Americans to be incredibly more tolerant than many Europeans. See the number of attacks against Jews in France and other EU nations, all in the name of the Palestinian intifada, by youths who are not even remotely Palestinian and never lived in an Arab, Muslim country. And compare with the minuscule, negligible number of retaliatory attacks on Arab Muslims after 9/11 in the US. But somehow, Americans are unable to differentiate between individuals and populations ? Between the personal and the political ?
Please. Give me a break.
France is to blame for the genocide in Rwanda, so the Iraq situation would have to get a whole lot worse before it rivalled Belgium and France’s debacle.
I was against the Iraq war, not because of bogus moral reasons, but because Americans would never get any thanks for it.
It’s ironic that the same people who hate Bush, were the same people who pleaded with America not to retreat into isolationism after 9/11.
Zevilyn, let’s not get carried away. France is no more responsible for the genocide in Rwanda anymore than the US or the UK are responsible for Saddam’s slaughters because of the assistance they gave him in the 1980s.
It is funny you speak about the famous ambushes in UN… But if the USA had proposed their resolution, majority of the council was against, and even if France had voted yes ! And I could ask Colin Powell just the same question I have asked about the mass destruction weapons : where are they ? and then where are your proofs of what you advanced ?
About the post-answer US gave to justify AFTER the beginning of the war in Iraq (the fact they will liberate the iraqish people from a dictator), I would say : there are about hundred dictatures in this world and about 80% are friends with USA (and France too) ! what a joke you spoke about then….