It’s always a fun rhetorical trick. There are nutters out there, yes. So, I’m going to claim that anyone who disagrees with me is one of those nutters. QED, I’m right. Thus neatly avoiding the rational opponents of my beliefs.
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Samizdata quote of the day – ConflationAugust 19th, 2023 |
 16 comments to Samizdata quote of the day – Conflation |
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I don’t need to worry about falling into that kind of circular logic trap, because all opponents of my beliefs are inherently irrational.
I got into an argument once with a man who insisted there was no such thing as insanity. Obviously, a nutter. So I nuttered back at him until he finally agreed nutters existed.
There is an element of truth to Mr. Goldsmith’s claim though: people who are skeptical about the dangers of climate change are likely to hold all sorts of beliefs contrary to expert opinion. In particular, you will find a substantial overlap between “climate deniers” and people who believe there might have been a nontrivial amount of election fraud in 2020, people who question the efficacy of covid lockdowns, people who deny the appropriateness of gender reassignment surgery for minors (or even majors), and so on.
Who exactly qualifies as a “nutter” is a question on which we may disagree. Personally, I have enough heretical ideas of my own that I’m willing to be tolerant of people who hold ideas that seem pretty crazy to me. Besides, there are so many of them!
But that’s just me. I’m sure there are plenty of people who are willing to toe the line on climate if that’s what it takes to avoid being lumped in with election deniers and misgenderers.
Is there an overlap between being wrong and a love of censorship? Being able to expose your beliefs to the alternate views of others and correct those views if necessary makes you less likely to harbour false beliefs in my view. Being so sure that you are correct that you think that anyone who disagrees with you needs to be silenced makes you much more likely to be wrong I would have thought.
Yeah, screw those … xenophobic … conspiracy … theorists.
I see, so according to Ben Goldsmith, the Great Reset is a conspiracy theory, not a book by Dr Schwab, and the WEF and other international bodies do not exist – Agenda 2030 and international sustainable development goals are a conspiracy theory, even the official documents describing such things as the aim of control of land use (making private ownership of land basically a nullity) are in no way secret.
Also, according to Ben Goldsmith, the American Presidential election of 2020 was totally straight, not rigged at all. And, according to Ben Goldsmith, there is no such thing as the sexual abuse of children, even that is a just a conspiracy theory – and the recent film showing a man’s fight against it is “mediocre” because the evil scum of the Economist magazine say it is “mediocre” (because they would rather questions were not asked about such matters).
I have no problem at all with being “conflated” with the “nutters” who oppose Corporate State control of land use (and so on), who oppose the rigging of elections, and who are against the sexual abuse of children – indeed I am flattered to be “conflated” with these “nutters” who are often much better people than I am.
As for the C02 is evil theory – the policy of outsourcing manufacturing to China (and other powers in Asia) has greatly increased C02 emissions, and the only practical way of massively reducing C02 emissions in the West would be allow the quick building of many small scale (modular) nuclear reactors.
If Ben Goldsmith points this out – then good for him. If he does not point this out – then he is not really interested in C02 emissions.
That’s a really good point about China, Paul. I think a lot of climate skepticism is driven by the rather obvious observation that a lot of the climate alarmists aren’t really all that focused on effective ways to reduce emissions. Anyone who who claims drastic immediate action to avoid a climate catastrophe yet who is also unwilling to even consider nuclear is not a person to be takes seriously.
Isn’t it self evident that non of the alarmists’ dire predictions ever come to pass? Why would anyone believe any of the predictions that they are making now when they haven’t been right once in forty years? Every time there is some destructive weather event the alarmists jump up and down pointing at it shouting See see see, climate change we told you so” as if destructive weather events are something completely new. Extreme scepticism is the only rational position.
Stonyground – indeed, if they really believed in the C02 is evil theory, they would be demanding the building of lots of nuclear power stations – they are not. And they would be protesting against the massive C02 emissions of China and demanding we stop importing stuff from China – they are not.
It is difficult not to conclude that whatever this international movement is really about – it is NOT about C02.
george m weinberg – I recently had a brief conversation on Facebook with an American based in San Francisco – he said I contradicted myself when I said that California had driven out much of manufacturing with its endless regulations and high government spending and taxation – “but” also said there should be more nuclear power stations in California.
It took me a little time to understand why he thought I had contradicted myself – but then it struck me, he assumed that any new nuclear power stations, indeed any new anything, must be GOVERNMENT. His Collectivism was so total – that he thought I was saying “the State government of California spends too much money – and they should spend money building nuclear power stations”.
This is the level of Collectivism among the “educated” (indoctrinated) – but then you know that. Among the “educated” (see the areas around universities) it is not necessary for the Collectivists to rig elections – as the students and former students (going out into the “real world” does NOT cure them) automatically support the most evil candidates for election. Baby killing, ever higher government spending, no protection for stores against theft, the sexual mutilation of children – the young, and not so young now, support it all.
It is hard to have any hope at all – for the United States or the rest of the world.
Climate change is unfalsifiable, any change that occurs through natural reasons will be claimed at artificially induced. If we have an extended period of calm weather without any extreme weather events as we did for some time it will simply be good fortune that Gaia is giving us a window of opportunity to atone for our sins. It has all the hallmarks of religious belief. The true acolytes need no proof, the wicked non-believers “deniers” must be punished.
Of course, when i decide that people are insane, it is not only because of what they say: it is also because of what they eat.
One must consider the input side (nutrition) as well as the output side (words & behavior).
Deciding that someone is insane, is necessary to avoid gaslighting.
You do not have to tell them, or anybody else; but you might do a favor to your fellow humans to say that the Emperor has no clothes.
Paul Marks:
Leaving aside the last item, i do not think that those are the most insane beliefs of Ben Goldsmith. Not even the belief that only nutters can be “climate skeptics” (his words) is the most insane thing.
The most insane beliefs are that:
* climate skeptics believe in aliens with wildfire-starting lasers;
* farmers who protest against the closure of their farms, do so because they are deceived by the “agri-chemical” industry.
But i do not find the standards insanities of our age, such as
* the circular definitions of ‘man’ and ‘woman’;
* the belief that the White male middle & working classes are actually the ruling class;
* the belief that saturated fats are unhealthy while grains and seed oils are healthy.
Snorri Godhi.
I met someone on Sunday who believes in the energy weapons theory (although, of course, not aliens). He is a scientist – but I do not regard the theory as necessary (so Occam’s Razor comes into play).
If the authorities refuse to cut back trees and undergrowth, and use regulations to prevent anyone else clearing over growth, then all they have to do is WAIT.
Wait till there is a fault on a power line, or a natural lighting strike, or just a spark from any source – and the dense overgrowth will burn and take houses and people with it.
Then blame “Climate Change”.
In Hawaii the situation was complicated by the man being in charge being a “nutter” who thought that water should be allocated on “Equity” grounds, and sounding the alarm would offend the spirit world (or something).
So Ben Goldsmith is correct about nutters being out there – but they are on his side.
The mixture of Frankfurt School Marxist (“Diversity, Equity and Inclusion”), beliefs and tribal mysticism, would not have shocked the late Ayn Rand – the lady predicted it.
This mixture of mutant forms of Marxism and tribal mysticism is all over the documents of U.N. Agencies and other such bodies.
During the recent Republican Presidential debate, Fox News played a propaganda video blaming the fire in Hawaii on “Climate change” (the C02 is evil theory) and then, without any counter video, asked the candidates to raise their hands in support, the implication being that if you did not raise your hand you supported people being burned to death.
People who still think that Fox News is an alterative to the rest of the Corporate media need to revise their opinion – it was a sick display of establishmentarianism, the sort of thing that has become horribly frequent, on many subjects.