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Good riddance to pure evil Dr Harold Shipman, one of the most prolific non-governmental mass murderers in recent history, has killed himself. There will be an enquiry as to why he was able to commit suicide, but to my mind the real mystery is not his death, for which few tears will be shed, but rather why he did the things he did.
Good riddance.
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Perry, the real mystery is how he got away with it for so long.
Good, saves us taxpayers around £ 100,000 per year AT LEAST – he should now be dismantled and his working organs used to give life to some of the long list awating donations.
Perry writes:
…but rather why he did the things he did
It’s a control thing. It’s common among medical students, and doctors, loving being in control of life and death. That’s why so many of them are burrowed so deep into the idea of the NHS, and its state control of human life. He just took this tendency to its extreme.
He was so addicted to it, that when he ran out of victims, he had to kill himself to get that last one thrill, as he passed out.
Like you say, good riddance.
Andy – a sickening and astute post.
Yes, now that you point it out – dead babies brains don’t get extracted from their bodies in the US. Only in Britain, where the doctor has no fear of his/her salary/reputation going west.
American doctors and hospitals simply do not have the incidences of abuse that the NHS has.
And I agree with you. Shipman’s death was one last thrill, but it was the thrill of cheating, one final time, the law. “See? Did it again! Can’t catch me now!”
Harold Shipman: Rest In Hell
You know, why should prisons even bother to post suicide watches on these sort of people? That said, should he be sentenced to death, if capital punishment was possible?
Saves everybody the trouble.
The Wobbly Guy
Just for the record, does anyone know on what grounds are theprison authorities entitled to implement suicide watches? After all, suicide is no longer illegal. Perhaps an interrupted suicide could sue on the grounds of having his civil liberties infringed. This is one for the European Court, surely.
Just for the record, does anyone know on what grounds are the prison authorities entitled to implement suicide watches? After all, suicide is no longer illegal. Perhaps an interrupted suicide could sue on the grounds of having his civil liberties infringed. This is one for the European Court, surely.
BigFire is right, the pertinent question, as with Fred West, was how he was able to do what he was doing for so long without detection.
There have always been evil people and there will always be evil people. Seeking to “understand why they did it” as a priority is falling into the same trap as those who would ask us to “understand” the “root causes” behind 9/11. It may be an interesting academic point but it is a lot more important to understand the reasons how a serial killers, or a terrorists, were able to do what they did, than the reasons why they did it.
No meaningful lesson about his rule can be drawn from a study of Stalin’s personality, however interesting it might be. It is a lot more useful to consider the political system that allowed someone like him absolute power to carry out his brutal rule.
Exactly so,I once heard someone on the radio phone in and say “Perhaps sharks wouldn’t do what they do if we were kinder to them”.At the time I tought “What a oneoff!” but now it is the prevalent attitude of mind and they are so surprised when the shark eats them.It doesn’t matter why,just make sure that it doesn’t by taking precautions.
I think the main reason people are interested in the whys of serial killing is because it is a clue to the hows. Or, at the very least, the reasons why a serial killer does the deeds may lead to the ability to spot them sooner.
I’ve been reading up on serial killers on crimelibrary.com — in fact, that’s where I first encountered the story of Dr. Shipman. I agree with my parents’ attitude about killers committing suicide, really… “Oh, darn.”
In response to Peter Briffa I can say that any member of the prison staff can raise a 2052SH (self harm form usually referred to in the media as suicide watch). Prison staff have a duty of care to prisioners, so if a member of staff is concerned that self harm or suicide is likely they will raise the 2052 SH which will trigger a number of support measures.
Peter, I once heard a vegan opine that, with a little patience, we can some day train foxes not to eat meat. It was a radio interview about how humans are a uniquely cruel species. My brain nearly exploded.
Speaking of radio, today’s Radio 4 coverage of Shipman’s suicide was 15% Shipman’s case history and 85% “do we do enough to prevent suicides in prison?”
“Speaking of radio, today’s Radio 4 coverage of Shipman’s suicide was 15% Shipman’s case history and 85% “do we do enough to prevent suicides in prison?”
One “consultant psychologist” in the Radio 4 discussion suggested that a TV in his room might have prevented it:
Serial Killer, Deprived of TV, Kills Self
William, thanks for that. Though I can still see the argument developing – if prisoners, like the rest of us, are entitled to kill themselves, then perhaps the duty of care ought to allow for this. Surely, in fact, suicide is a right, and therefore prisoners must be supplied with the tools to finish the job. It must be an infringement of their civil liberties to stop them.
Not that I approve, you understand, but these things often have a habit of working out like this.
S Weasel – Arrrggghhh! Radio 4! My head just went bang. Instead of “Do we do enough to prevent suicide in prison” – how about, “Do we give a shit?”
And yes, Peter Biffra, I think one could make a case for their Human Rights being infringed by not being allowed to kill themselves.
I read in The Telegraph this morning that those poor families of the people he murdered (I am not going to term them ‘victims’ because that would be a triumph for him) have said he has cheated them and had control over them one last time, because they now have no hope of ever knowing why he murdered their mothers (and in one woman’s case, both her mother and father).
I think you’ll find, Peter, that the “tools to finish the job”, if supplied to the prisoner, might have uses other than suicide.
Well they could have a hanging room, equipped with one EU-certified piece of rope, plus a Health and Safety-certified chair.
Hmm. I don’t know Verity, I think that a lot more happens in America than is otherwise thought.
I’m not certain of the actual current procedures as they probably vary a great deal state to state. And I’m not completely certain about the impact of the AMA along with the libability evading nature of today’s hospitals. I’d guess though that there are far more incidents in America than we’re otherwise aware of. Quite a few can simply be attributed to gross negligence and incompetence. I know from personal experience just how negligent medical staff can be, especially when dealing with proper sterility measures.
But we’ve had any number of incidents where medical staff, including nurses and doctors, have murdered patients. After all what’s more normal than for a hospital patient to die? They’re already sick so dying from “complications” isn’t that big a stretch. Additionally there are any number of compounds that can easily kill people that are just about undetectable, and are available to medical personnel. Once a vial, of anything, is distributed by the hospital phamacy for use with one patient it effectively it entirely up to the administering nurse to ensure it gets used on the correct patient. As nurses regularly enter hospital rooms and administer drugs without any comment at all, would a patient realize that they’ve been given a drug or simply saline? And if someone dies in a hospital how often are they checked for murder?
*shrug* Frankly there really aren’t all that many controls. We hope that there are but there aren’t. Additionally it’s not in a corporation driven hospital’s interest to make waves. If they do they’ll be the target of investigations and litigation. In such a circumstance does anyone really expect honesty from hospitals?
Consider even the nature of doctor incompetence. In all cases a doctor’s license to practice medicine is based on state certifications, not federal. Additionally any problems the doctor has with their practice are also limited on a state by state basis. So a doctor with a license to practice in both New Jersey and New York might have many issues in New York but New Jersey would never know about them. Additionally it’s nearly impossible to find out any information on the quality of a specific doctor and to find out if there are any issues in their past.
There have been a number of cases, in New Jersey alone, where a doctor has performed, and botched, operations completely stoned. These same doctors have had their licenses suspended for multiple cases of drug abuse, attempts at rehabilitation and continuing problems with addiction. In these cases it has proved impossible for those vicitms to find out about these problems before their own unfortunate encounter.
In my case I had to deal with a rather incompetent vascular surgeon. A person whose level of utter stupidity is almost beyond recognition and whom I would have avoided like the Black Plague, had I only had some forewarning. This idiot performed catheter insertion operations with only a local painkiller applied. Aside from the fact that I had asked to be put under, and the fact that the local was applied with a 6 inch needle right into my neck, there is the fact that I could still feel, without pain though, a scalpel cutting my jugular vein.
Not a pleasant feeling I assure you.
Additionally this fruitcake later on infected me with MRSA which then required 3 months of constant medical care, 5 surgeries, 7 hospitalizations and the removal of a golf-ball sized chunk of flesh from my left arm. When I discuss this idiot with a nurse that part-timed as a professional witness for a local lawyer she mentioned that she knew a lot about this guy because he was constantly getting sued for malpractice. In her words he was a “frequent flyer”, a term used to describe repeat malpractice offenders.
😛
So I wouldn’t be too complacent about things in America. Even a market based healthcare system doens’t ensure any sort of transparency. And when you factor in the efforts of the AMA to avoid any sort of real accountability in the profession, a sort of continuous “awww. let’s give him another chance. he’s spent so much time in school ….”, then the possibility that there are unknown murderers in our hospitals isn’t so farfetched.
And if that’s not enough, there’s also this:
Nurse Charles Cullen
*shrug* (yes I know I tend to disgorge long posts. sorry)
Who said anything about America? And you seem to have missed the point: Dr Shipman made home visits – sometimes to patients who were surprised to see him because they hadn’t called – and injected them with diamorphine. Over 200 of them proven. Possibly, on further investigation, well over 400 cases of murder.
What possible connection does your lengthy post have to what we were discussing?
“American doctors and hospitals simply do not have the incidences of abuse that the NHS has.”
I was replying to this.
Given what a smug self satisfied bastard the guy appeared to be, having been beaten by the police and in prison for as long as he lived seems to have been too much for him.
Personally under those circumstances, given what he did, I’d have wished a very very long and unhappy life.
I have a friend who used to work with people looking after Ian Brady – they were determined he’d live as long as possible.
Well, Tuscan Tony – We now have the news that his widow will get a £100,000 NHS lump payment and £10,000 per year thereafter.
I just hope the children of the deceased bring a class action suit and get it all off her. Let her go out and work for a living. You cannot tell me that you can live for 25 (or however many) years with someone who comes home from committing murder 300 or more times and not think, “Hey, I wonder if there’s something unusual going on here.”
You cannot tell me that you can live for 25 (or however many) years with someone who comes home from committing murder 300 or more times and not think, “Hey, I wonder if there’s something unusual going on here.”
What on Earth would have tipped her off?
He was at work, they died at work, he was able to fool coroners, the police on 2 occasions, undertakers and other doctors – its not like he “happened” to be out of the house every evening that there was a brutal murder or something.
I’m not sure what penalising this woman does.
I wonder what is so objectionable about allowing or indeed helping prisoners to off themselves? Surely a person has ultimate ownership of his own life even if he is a ward of the state, and unless you reject the notion of assisted suicide out of hand what is there to stop us from extending that right to criminals? I don’t see what is to be gained from the kind of sadistic retributivism that would keep convicts alive against their own will.
I wonder what is so objectionable about allowing or indeed helping prisoners to off themselves?
Because at the end of the day an element of punishment is required – especially for heinous criminal acts.
I’m not a proponent of the death penalty, even in open and shut cases I feel there is too much margin for error, however, for certain types of murder life should mean life.
Dave O’Neill, This man was deeply weird. She was, by all accounts, under his somewhat controlling thumb. He regarded himself as socially superior to her. She was an unquestioning doormat, but I do not believe there were absolutely no signs at all that he was engaged in something unusual. I don’t have the information to hand, but there were at least a couple of investigations into murders he’d committed that he managed to slither out of. She had to wonder why he was being questioned … I simply don’t believe there wasn’t something nagging at the back of her brain.
I simply don’t believe there wasn’t something nagging at the back of her brain.
There might well have been, although bizarely she seems to have stood with him something I recall Sonia Sutcliffe did not.
But that is a common effect and he does seem to have been a prime manipulator – I still don’t see the need to punish her for that. I don’t think it serves much purpose.