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The Political Class is getting uneasy A large chunk of the Political Class is starting show all the signs of an entrenched deeply entitled group starting to smell the whiff of the great unwashed upwind of them.
No ‘responsible’ leader could ever leave EU, says Danny Alexander
David Cameron risks ‘sleepwalking’ UK out of EU, warns Ed Miliband
My gawd, what might happen if people in the UK actually got a choice about the EU?
But of course anyone who thinks that Dave Cameron actually wants the UK out of the EU, in spite of mild bleeting about ‘renegotiation’, is quite frankly a wilfully blind fool. My only hope is that Dave is stupid enough to think that he can ride that particular wild horse and keep it under control and taking sugar from his hand without biting his fingers off.
Fortunately I think he really is that stupid.
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I like the way this is going. Only a few years ago, the very notion of leaving the EU was completely and utterly off the bien pensant radar. They were secure in the knowledge that anyone who introduced the topic could be dismissed as a swivel-eyed eurosceptic loon. Now they are frantically writing articles saying why it would be a bad idea if we chose to leave.
It has taken some time, but progress has been made. The endgame can’t be that far off.
Ray: “Now they are frantically writing articles saying why it would be a bad idea if we chose to leave.”
What I don’t understand is where this ‘crisis’ has come from? It seems to me to be entirely manufactured by the Political class, for that reason it stinks to high heaven.
OK, an accusation I often level at the political parties in the UK is that the EU is never discussed – because it never is other than in puerile terms by the likes of Ken Clarke who ‘doesn’t want to be left behind’, or find ourselves ‘in the slow lane of a two speed Europe*’, bla bla bla.
Could this ‘fuss’ simply be a stratagem to say, look we discuss Europe (aka the European Union ) all the time, we just did. Then the media switch will be thrown and PRESTO, child pornography will be back and another media chum of Jimmy Savile will be arrested.
Jim’ll fix it for the establishment!
*Always meaning the European Union.
I was just watching a documentary about ancient Egypt regarding the fall of one of their powerful dynasties back in 2500 bce or thereabouts.
The big, final conclusion—the Nile floods failed for several years in a row, and the resulting famine completely undermined the claim of the Pharoah and his priests to be in direct contact with the gods, and therefore his authority to rule here on earth.
Now let’s see… if a group of pols keep making big power grabs based on the claim that they will deliver economic progress and prosperity, and instead all they deliver is stagnation and bankruptcy, how long before people figure out they’re not in touch with the gods at all?
Seems like I remember a big, bad, totalitarian state that imploded because of that issue just a few decades ago.
The name is on the tip of my tongue, let me think, what was it again. Oh, yeah, something about “blah blah socialist blah blah”.
Maybe we could ask some of these worried pols if they remember…
“What I don’t understand is where this ‘crisis’ has come from? It seems to me to be entirely manufactured by the Political class, for that reason it stinks to high heaven.”
It hasn’t been manufactured by the Political Class, because as mentioned above, the usual process is to ignore talking about it at all, and continue with the ‘Project’ without letting on to the public what is being done. The fact it is being talked about at all means there is an underlying problem they are trying to eradicate.
What has happened is that the Political Class have realised that the EU is coming to a fork in the road in the next few years. The Eurozone wish to integrate further, and given the UK is not even in the Euro, and they stand zero chance of getting us in, even if they were stupid enough to think it was a good idea, the Eurozone is going to effectively leave the UK. So the issue at hand is to manage that process as best they can, and prevent a complete removal of the UK from the European control structure. What they are aiming for is a ‘renegotiation’ with a few token powers returned to the UK, with a referendum on the result, with a yes vote backed by all the main parties, ie a stitch up. The UK will effectively still be in the EU, but have no say in its running (rather like now really) and faithfully implement all the output of Brussels just as it does now.
Of course the path of Euro machinations doesn’t always run smooth, and nationalistic tempers may end up creating scenarios they haven’t considered.
Well I did say the last time this came up that every political party and media outlet apart from UKIP will say leaving the EU will be a disaster for the UK, didn’t I? Now they have co-opted the CBI, Honda and the Yanks too. They must be very worried indeed that us Plebs have seen through the scam.
That’s not to say they won’t succeed pulling the wool again though. The General Public is so emmeshed in the Matrix of the welfare state, that they may well, by the time the questions are framed for a Referendum (and a plain in or out won’t be the question I betcha), be scared into voting for the bloody racket once again. And we bloggers can’t win the argument all on our lonesome.
Calling Mr. Baker! Will the Distinguished Member from [where’s he from??] please Phone Ho–er–E-mail Samizdata at once!
If it would help any, maybe we over here could persuade Bill Whittle to come and speak to assorted groups. He’s rarely in finer flow than at a Tea Party rally…. 🙂
I tell you one thing, if we don’t leave a whole swathe of politicians on both sides of the aisle will be turning up in juicy EU commissioner posts over the next few years.
It’s getting to the point that they are making themselves completely unelectable to any post that has a hint of democracy in its selection process.
They must have been offered something pretty damn sweet to both betray their country and ensure they will be unable to continue as MPs.
But would leaving the EU really be in Britain’s interests? You’d need to deal with it in some way- so is divorce the best answer? Can’t you work something out, together?
As Tony Blair pointed out, do you really want to be like Switzerland, having to comply with your major trading partner, but having no say in what it does?
Nick Gray: “As Tony Blair pointed out, do you really want to be like Switzerland, having to comply with your major trading partner, but having no say in what it does?”
Citing Tony Blair as argumentum ad verecundiam is unlikely to give your point much credit.
But if you mean ‘like Switzerland’ as in the UK like the UK with regard to the USA or like the UK with regard to Japan or like the UK with regard to Russia – what is you point?
With none of those significant trading partners do we have much say in their internal affairs, we still trade with them pretty well.
Nick,
I’m always in favour of secession at all levels, up to and including right down to the level of the individual.
But if my hand thinks he’s going off alone he’s got another thing coming…..
This is probably not the time to re-hash the arguments over the Norwegian or Swiss arrangements with the EU and how they get along perfectly well in EFTA or EEA and have plenty of say in their trading arrangements with their neighbours. Daniel Hannan does that at least twice a week.
I will comment on how poor Dave has had to respond to yesterday’s ‘big boys’ – Clarke, Heseltine and Mandelson – by saying that Britain could manage quite happily outside the EU, but it would not be in Britain’s interest, or Dave’s I suspect.
The big question is will the Euro manage to last until the next UK general election. If Dave promises an in/out referendum but doesn’t get it done before the euro goes tits up, I suspect he, (and Ed and Cleggy), will have some ‘re-positioning’ to do.
Nick asks if we want to be like Switzerland.
Answer: Yes. If only. The country has had to put up with a fair degree of international gnashing of teeth and bullying over its bank secrecy laws, but the country has one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world, is well educated, peaceful, prosperous, and fairly free of crime and related problems. Yes, some of its circumstances cannot be replicated by an island nation such as the UK, but that is hardly much of a problem.
I also like the fact that Swiss politicians are low-key to the point of being invisible, and I also like the robust independent spirit of that country.
And the Swiss understand also things such as defence policy means defence, rather than hyperactive interventionism, although in some cases foreign intervention, if you are a big power with lots of sea-routes and connections, is hard to avoid.
On “Classic F.M.” (supposedly part of the private alternative to the BBC) “Danny” Alaxander was described as part of the “Tory Europhile fightbaclk” against David Cameron (who they seemed to regard as some sort of anti E.U. person).
I do not know what disgusts me more, the ignorance of the “mainstream” media (Mr Alexander is, of course, not a member of the Conservative Party) or their utter bias – which is so total they do not even understand they are biased.
However, I think the “Europhiles” (the media, the education system, and the corrupt corporate welfare seeking “businessmen”) are going to lose. And I think, in the end, it will be oddly easy.
Even a supposed man-of-blood such as myself is not predicting any shooting and throat slitting over this one, there is not going to be any fighting. The “Europhiles” will just collapse under the weight of their corrupt absurdity.
Many things scare me – but the European Union is not one of them, this particular absurdity is going to collapse.
The terrible thing is that it is not the real problem – certainly its regulations do terrible harm (see the works of Christoper Booker and Richard North on this), but the central problems facing Britain are the out of control Welfare State and the credit bubble financial-banking system.
And neither of these things is really an E.U. thing – although, yes, the E.U. supports both of them.
It is all very depressing – and if I had an easy solution I would offer it (I do not have such an easy solution).
But at least the absurd E.U. will soon be no more – hopefully the BBC and the “independent” radio and television news will go with it.
The sad irony, Paul, is that with one of those serious issues you mention – the credit bubble financial-banking system – it is the very thing eurosceptics of the Faragist, Evans-Pritchard school look at as a great blessing – the Bank of England’s ability to act “independently” to take “extraordinary” measures in “support” of the economy – that may ultimately be responsible for running the economy of the edge of a cliff.
James, that was a result of too much regulation, not too little.
Without centrally set interest rates and without bailouts, the credit bubble would have never happened, or at least never been repeated since the guiilty parties would have gone under.
So a move out of Europe is at least a move in the right direction.
I am rather astonished at the volume coming from the scaremongers, is panic setting in I wonder? It is atrange that we get no new argument in favour of the EU, not that there is one, but you would think they could dream up some new lies. The old ones are so tired they are falling asleep. Several blogs have pointed the way to go with the least upset to our Country but as usual no one is listening.
Many apologies, finger too fast for brain, my second sentence should of course read “it is strange that…..”
Good.
The last thing I want is for them to get a clue and engineer a referendum with questions and a PR campaign that suits them.
The next election is going to be hugely entertaining as far as the Conservatives are concerned. With UKIP taking votes and the LD voters switching to Labour, I predict the Cameroons getting the boot and being considered persona non grata within the party. The liberal wing of the party can take over from the one-nation bunch we have now.