There is a fairly interesting article in Unherd about the current disturbances in UK, but the missing elephant in the room, a very large Halal elephant, is that after Oct 7th 2023, UK streets have been choked with large numbers of marches by Islamic folk & their secular green-haired Gays-For-Gaza supporters, deeply invested in a war in which UK has little to no geopolitical stake. These marches drove British Jews off streets as genocidal slogans were chanted in Arabic (من المية للمية / فلسطين عربية) & the flags of proscribed organisations were flown times beyond counting a few feet away from lines of indifferent policemen, over and over and over again.
Contrast that with the heavy handed treatment of the small sporadic counter-protests which flew Union flags or (gasp) Cross of St. George, things that only cause dyspepsia to those infused with high-status Guardian reading opinions.
However, the war in Ukraine, where the UK geopolitical interest is manifest to anyone not a fan of Putin & Imperial Russia’s Z-fascism, did not produce constant street level responses beyond some shouting at the Russian Embassy in Kensington Palace Gardens. Why? It’s not a divisive issue, so Ukraine’s supporters didn’t really feel the need to. Few in UK want to see Europe to be destabilised by allowing Russia to once again bordering with Romania & Slovakia with interior supply lines.
So, Ukraine’s fight for survival has not induced British Ukrainians to run for office in Westminster or (more bizarrely) local councils based entirely on their views about a foreign war & appealing to a sectarian/ethnic vote.
Yet that is exactly what has happened since Oct 7th on the issue of Gaza. To understand the pent-up resentment without looking at that is to miss a huge element of how we ended up where we are.
The Labour Government (nor indeed the entirely pointless Tories) do not even understand the problem let alone have a solution, well, other than to just dial up the repression against online words and to dish out more riot gear to hammer some gammon. Instead of actually thinking about this, we saw assorted MPs & various worthies muttering darkly about the “EDL”, an organisation that doesn’t even exist anymore, making this a bit like when Royalists dug up Oliver Cromwell after the Restoration to “execute” him post-mortem.
The article refers to “the extraordinary turnout for the anti-fascist marches on Wednesday” without mentioning the forests of standard issue socialist worker placards which rather question the spontaneity of these highly visible events despite the unanimous approval expressed in the blanket media coverage.
It also neglects to consider whether the turnout at a protest might be inversely proportional to the perceived likelihood of being arrested and subsequently convicted just for being there.
John, the forests of Socialist Worker Party placards do not indicate that the majority of attendees were SWP supporters. The SWP have been doing this for at least half a century. Here’s something I wrote in 2011 about my memories of going to anti-racist demos in the 1970s:
Placards and flags make a relatively small demonstration look bigger. When said flags and placards are all the same the effect is further amplified – very important as the “press shot” is invariably a priority.
The left are extremely adept at this.
So one question.
Is it better for this to come to a head now or for this to happen in 5, 10 or whatever years?
Der Sturmer could SO easily have avoided (or at least delayed) this. Even some small concession to the deep and profound concerns of millions (which would, of course, been a cynical and insincere lie) could perhaps have diffused the situation and made his narrative of “far right” a smidgen believable.
Labour is a zoo of mutually loathing factions who, presumably, will now start to corral the new intake of drones, many of who will – assuming they pay attention to their constituents (a big assumption I know!) – be getting very strong indications as to how short their parliamentary careers are likely to be, particularly in the red wall.
Der Sturmer – in his bubble within a bubble within a bubble – has just declared war on Britain in a way that is simply not possible for anybody who is not a paid up shill to deny.
It should be remembered that Bonaparte lost more men on the way to Moscow than on the way back.
My nightmare in all this is that der Sturmer will be SO bad that he might even revive the tories!
Scene: Somewhere in Langley, Virginia, in a small dingy room, ( commensurate with the importance of the operation ). The status of the latest colour revolution is being discussed.
“How is it going in Bradford?”
“Great, all those socialist Worker placards we printed up for the BLM demonstrations back in 2020 have been distributed, again.”
“That’s a great saving, I knew England would be cheap. So, proceeding according to plan?”
“Yes, we’ve got the Moslems we drove out of Syria and Libya, at the throats of the British working class who’s employment we got exported to China.”
“Good work. If you pull this one off, you get to do Germany next.”
“Kamala has given the ‘go ahead’ for Germany?”
“We’re not bothering Kamala with that op., it’s above her pay grade.”
I did read this piece earlier re: are the counter demos “real” or not. It’s difficult to say if they are real; probably a mix of swp, lefty rentamob and ordinary locals genuinely concerned.
My elephant repellant works, I’ve never had an elephant in my garden.
The SWP were always heavily infiltrated by MI5, so I wonder how ‘organic’ a lot of their activity is. They seem to always be involved in every major left wing activist cause, despite the fact that from seeing them operate in Leeds for years they always just looked like a real pathetic bunch of spinsters and soyboys.
I was in Hastings today and there was a ‘placard workshop’ in an unused shop, and a demo starting outside the shopping center. I did wonder who paid for the use of the shop (maybe the center management ‘donated’ it?), and how quickly it was arranged. There was also a ‘Free Palestine’ table full of materials. I didn’t hang around to observe in case things kicked off. (I was with family)
I hope that M15 infiltrate them. Better to know who they are.
At least we can get done return on our tax pounds. 😬
I think it’s more likely now that MI5 use groups like the SWP as containment. They aren’t any genuine left-wing revolutionary threat to the current British ruling class but allow hothead leftists think they are sticking it to the bosses while engaging in pointless Trotskyist rhetoric. But when the time comes and the British ruling class needs to buttress their legitimacy groups like the SWP do help mobilise for ‘anti-fascist’ campaigns and theatrics like we saw this week.
I wonder how long they are going to carry on this theatre, and I wonder how many of these “demonstrations of unity” there will be and where.
It will be an indication of their fear.
And there was a “demonstration” outside Reform HQ. Which pretty well says it all!
Asking for a friend: Where do I get my free Palestine?
Given that the choice seems to be Hamas and Fatah, it would not be free, and I suspect a lot of Israeli Arabs look at what is on offer and shudder.
The current British elite are almost entirely foxes (in the Machiavelli/Pareto concept of elites being foxes or lions – I’d say the last ‘lion’ PM was probably Thatcher), and they are both less skilled than previous fox elites and also have shakier foundations for their power than in the past.
The rioters of the past few weeks were a disorganised violent rabble who no doubt fell for a lot of fox elite style traps. However I suspect that the elites get so worried about such rioters because these rioters are the kinds fox style elites can’t easily control for the long-term (unlike pro-BLM and Palestine rioters, who pose no threat to the current elite). Disorganised masses rarely if ever achieve anything substantial outside some chaos and disorder. If that kind of the energy and mass was organised and subordinated to a few skilful lions though that were much less susceptible to the tricks and traps foxes play…..
@Mr Ed @ August 10, 2024 at 7:10 pm
One token with every 5 gallons. Collect 10 tokens and you get your free Palestine.
(You need to be over a certain age to get the reference. Ahem!).
Martin expresses pretty much my way of seeing things:
Hothead leftists (and radical Islamists) are the useful-idiotic henchmen of the establishment.
(I have no definite opinion about MI5, though.)
There seems to be a ‘new kid in town, along with a few “mates”:
“Two tier Keir and the Starmtroopers”. Good name for a “Death Metal’ band.
The “head-loppers” are in there, sandals and all, sowing fear and confusion, PURELY for their own benefit.
The gibbering idiots in the LSM, Wankerdemia and all of the pollie-muppets are the sand-pirate equivalent of “useful idiots”; dhimmis.
Get your affairs in order
Also see how in France how the left have three times saved Emmanuel Macron’s political career, all the while he plays them for complete chumps.
Then see the DSA/Squad in the USA, whose sucking up to establishment democrats is beyond parody.
Perry it is not just the chanting of genocidal slogans.
There has been violence on the streets – both from some (some – certainly NOT all) followers of Islam and from the far left (this alliance is utterly bizarre as Islam and Marxism are based on principles that are in conflict – but leave that aside), but police and the authorities generally have largely (not totally – but largely) ignored this violence. Yet they have come down like a ton of bricks on “right wing” rioting.
A “two tier” system is not a theory – it is clearly a fact. People are clearly very angry about the “two tier” system – but also very afraid, as they know their lives can be ruined by the authorities (and the allies of the authorities), and ordinary people can not really defend themselves against “cancellation” and so on. The Mark Steyn (censored for telling the truth about the Covid “vaccines” – censored by the wildly biased “Ofcom”, which the judge absurdly stated was not biased) case (and many other cases before it) shows that the systematic bias of the authorities – includes the courts, civil and criminal.
A person can get two years in prison for nasty “far right”, but non violent, stickers – but the person who put up the Revolutionary Communist Party posters in my home town would not get a day in prison – not two years in prison, not even a day in prison.
There is nothing much ordinary people can do – as they grit their teeth when they hear talk from their masters about “this free country” and how we must “defend freedom around the world”.
Some people go mad (go insane) and start supporting Mr Putin – on the ground that “the enemy of my enemy (Western “Woke” authorities) is my friend” – but Mr Putin is NOT a friend, as I said long ago – people in the West who see Mr Putin as some sort of saviour are like drowning people – clutching at a poisonous snake.
So… what’s the over and under for the people to start a revolution in the UK? Or at the very least, ignite enough scandals and failures to put forward a vote of no-confidence?
@ Paul Marks
“supporting Mr Putin” surely that should read “voting tory”?
And God spaketh unto the Tories, saying, “Labour have gone mad. Here is your chance to speak up for the people and improve your chances in the next election.” The Tories considered this, and replied, “Nah, we good bro.”
For those who think this would be utterly hypocritical of the Tories, I am reminded of Churchill’s story that Labour berated him continuously about spending too much on the military, until Germany invaded Poland, where apron they switched overnight to berating him for not spending enough. Hypocrisy is a perfectly valid political tactic.
Islam is a vigorous, expansionary ideology. They will push up against every rule from parking to planning to test the government’s resolve. If you intend to have a minority Muslim population you must police them with equal vigour. If you fail to do this, and the government has pretty much abandoned statutory rape and a host of public order laws, then you will become majority Muslim. It is as simple as that.
Labour criticised Chamberlain’s government for both increasing military spending and for its diplomatic policies regarding Germany. Churchill though, was not in Chamberlain’s government until the war broke out.
I stand corrected. My recollection is that Churchill complained that Labour reversed their position over night.
That part is true enough.
Labour’s policy in peacetime was to decry what’s called ‘appeasement’ (at least towards Germany, not the Soviet Union) but also decried anything that would genuinely allow an alternative policy to be pursued that might have a chance of succeeding. Once war broke out Labour immediately changed its tune and books.
Martin, you may be right.
There always appears something just a bit too “staged” about the SWIP.
Wobbly: Labour have a functional majority of over 300, their government isn’t going to fall.
Perry – to the Labour Party, and the left generally, none of this is a “problem”, it is an opportunity – an excuse to do what they have long wanted to do.
The Conservatives not understanding things – some do understand, but some do not understand or pretend they do not understand. All but a handful of Conservative Members of Parliament voted for such things as Labour Party introduced “Equality Act” – seemingly unable, or unwilling, to understand that the purpose of the Act (and other such regulations) was to, de facto, make leftism the law-of-the-land and opposition to leftism a crime. Certainly such Ministers as Jacob Rees-Mogg could order Civil Servants to stop being “Woke” – but they could just turn round and point at such things as the Equality Act which meant that they has a legal duty to push a far left agenda.
To be fair Jacob Rees-Mogg has said that he understands this – but it is rather a problem that nothing was done, in 14 years, to repeal the Equality Act, the Environment Act, the Blairite Quango that now selects judges – and on and on. Yes the Conservatives did not have a majority for a lot of that 14 years – and then there was the civil strife over independence from the European Union, and then there was Covid – but it is still a shame that nothing was achieved in terms of repealing basic leftist legislation.
By the way – I doubt that Gaza has much relevance to all this.
After all the gang rape and forced prostitution gangs, what the media oddly calls “grooming” gangs, have been operating for many years.
And the de facto alliance between some (some NOT all) Islamic forces and the Marxists (yet again this alliance is weird as the philosophical foundations of the two doctrines are in conflict with each other) also goes back many years.
More and more areas have been transformed over the years – and to oppose this process (which might be called colonisation – natural increase is part of colonisation, as the British themselves showed in their colonies in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and so on in former times) is held to be “racist” or “Islamophobic” by the authorities and their allies.
The marches since October 2022 are really just icing on the cake – and their message is, in reality, nothing much to do with the Middle East. The message of the marches (which contain some people who are NOT Muslims – many far leftists actively cooperate with these marches) is “we are the masters now” – not of some area in the Middle East, but of larger and larger areas of Britain.
Ditto the “counter protests” against the EDL, an organisation that does not exist, which were celebrated by the British media (including the “right wing press”) as “the British people coming together to reject racism” – as if either Islam or Marxism (the two forces in a bizarre, contradictory, alliance in these events) were a “race”. It is rather odd to hold that these two forces make up “the British people” – but that does appear to be the new definition of the term.
To share footage of what the “anti racists” were actually doing is, as the police have helpfully pointed out, a crime – film of what actually happened in places such as Croydon must not be shared on social media, as it would “inspire hate” by challenging the establishment narrative.
For example, the narrative that such events were “counter protests” – in reality there were often no “right wingers” to counter.
The map of “100 right wing riots” supposedly planned for a certain evening, a map wildly shared by the “right wing press” was classic agitation propaganda (agit prop) – the left just made it up. Will anyone be punished for spreading such “disinformation” on social media? Of course not, as such laws are for “right wingers” not for the left.
Two tier system.
As for the “far right” – for some DO exist, they are thugish (as their original riots showed) and ideologically confused, without any clear belief system.
They must be easy for the security services (and the left) to manipulate.
As with anything the question is “who benefits?”. The thug “far right” certainly did not benefit from their riots – the left and the authorities benefitted, as should have been obvious to anyone in advance.
So either the “far right” are utter morons (quite possible) – or they are being manipulated, or (quite possibly) both.
I repeat – the thug “far right” and their pathetic original riots – are not a threat to the system or its agenda, on the contrary they give the perfect justification to push the agenda of control.
Whether the “far right” are just morons, or are being manipulated by the authorities and leftist groups, I do not know.
As for the demographic transformation – it also seems to be hitting Indian Hindus, for example in Leicester (a city not a huge distance from my own town) – how the Indian Hindus are “white supremacist racists” has not been explained by the BBC.
Not now, but i’ll stick my neck out and say that i don’t expect them to last a full 5 years.
You read it here first.
Problem is, if you listen to 60% of the world, everyone who might read Samizdata is “far right.” They have successfully placed us into that group you’re decrying.
They do narratives far better than we do.
Much less than 60%, i would think. But it all depends on how you measure it.
How many people in the world know what Samizdata is about, for one thing?
I’d guesstimate that well over 60% of MSM writers and believing readers, at least in Western countries, think of Trump and Farage as “far right”. But i attribute that to the brain-damaging effects of the modern Western diet. EUropeans have no idea of what Trump’s policies are, and most Anglos have no idea of what fascism was about.
BTW: In the last century, Italians used to think of classical liberalism as “center-left”, because it is neither Catholic, nor fascist, nor monarchist. Not sure about now.
Not much less, I think. I base that on how we seem to be losing elections all over, to people who call us “far right.”
Bobby: please note that the “”far””-“”right”” won the last Italian election — and Matteo Renzi, a former PM of the “left”, explicitly said that, as much as he disagrees with Giorgia Meloni, she is no fascist. That is, she is not of the “far-right”.
And this pattern can be seen all over EUrope, albeit only in countries with populations smaller than Italy. Germany and France remain the sick outliers.
Giorgia might yet disappoint, but she has broadened the Overton window. That Italians do not realize that Trump is no more extreme than Giorgia, i blame on the brain-damaging effects of wheat-derived products.
How is this not “Most of these trees are oaks” . . . “no, that one over there is a pine”? 😉
bobby b
“Right wingers” who go around rioting, smashing up private property, stealing, and so on – have made the wrong choice, both morally and practically
The idea that they will serve some sort of valid political cause, such as preventing the areas they live in being taken over (by Islam – or whatever) is delusional.
On the contrary they play into the hands of the authorities and the leftist groups (not that there is any real difference now – as even the police come out with Frankfurt School language, although they most likely do NOT know it is Frankfurt School Marxist language).
Use the methods of the left, such as rioting, and you get the results the left want – tyranny.
For chaos and tyranny are not opposites – they are kin, they both rest on force and fear.
When people such as Saul Alinsky pushed chaos (in “Rules for Radicals”) they did so because they understood this – they understood that chaos leads to tyranny, and tyranny is what Mr Alinsky (and the rest of the left) wanted and have always wanted. The “Lawgiver” of Rousseau who decides what the “General Will” is – and if most people do not agree with the “Lawgiver” (the Progressive intellectuals) too bad for most people – who are just showing “pride” not “self love” and are just “the will of all” not the true “General Will” which only Rousseau (or Plato before him) can know.
Those who riot, who smash up private property and so on, either knowingly push the leftist agenda of tyranny (as leftist rioters do) or unknowingly push the leftist agenda of tyranny – as those “right wing” rioters do, who aid the very state they claim to hate.
Yes – aid it, give the authorities the perfect excuse for censorship and control, for the leftist agenda of tyranny.
Perhaps the “right wing” rioters are not the puppets of leftist groups and the security services – but they might as well be – as they, knowingly or unknowingly, serve the totalitarian, total control, agenda.
Paul, I understand and agree with what you’re saying. My point had been that anyone to the right of Genghis Khan is considered to be the far right by modern progressives.
Oops. Karl Marx, not Genghis Khan.
bobby b – my apologies for misunderstanding you Sir.
I can be a pompous old windbag at times, like those old men that Mr Hume had fun mocking – always seeing the most minor matter to be a point of principle, and always looking for a last stand to die in, rather than sitting down to a cheerful word game. People likely to become angry when he, for fun, argued against the existence of the universe (or rather its provability – not the same thing), argued against the idea that moral reason should control the passions, and even argued against the existence of he human person (the “I” – a thought does not mean a thinker, oh yes it does).
Question the assumptions of people and you may find that they have not thought out their position – so even if they are correct (and the old stick-in-the-muds were correct) they are unable to explain why they are correct, and thus can not really reply to the Scotsman returned from cynical France.
Old Man McCoy refused to forgive the Hatfields or their supporters – on two grounds, the first being that the first person to be killed was a McCoy (a United States soldier coming home badly wounded – who was brutally murdered) and the second grounds being that the Hatfields and their supporters attacked women and
children and the McCoys did not.
But Old Man McCoy had no idea how to make his case – he could not argue well, he had no “gift of the gab” and people who did not like him could speak really well – so most people think the dispute was over a pig or something, and that Old Man McCoy went to his dying day (he burned to death) never kissing-and-making-up because he was a stiff necked old man – which, yes, he was (but there was a bit more to it than that).
And you are quite correct – the modern left do see anyone who rejects Marxism, if only their own weird Herbert Marcuse version of Marxism, to be a “right winger”, even “far right”.
For example – Paul Embery is a life long Labour Party supporter and union activist – but he is regularly attacked as “far right” because he opposes modern Marxism on race, sex, Islam, and-so-on.
Still time to raise a glass to the Emperor Probus – the Emperor who legalised large scale wine cultivation in areas of the Empire outside Italy, such as the wonderful Rhineland (alas – I am back in Britain).