The foreign ministers of Australia, Japan, India and the US issued a joint statement after the massacre, saying ‘We underscore the need to prevent the conflict from escalating’. Likewise, Britain’s foreign secretary, David Lammy, has said ‘we are deeply concerned about the risk of further escalation’. These are warnings to Israel, aren’t they? These powerhouses of Western diplomacy, with their noisy teeth-gnashing over ‘escalation’, are essentially telling Israel to chill out. Indeed, one US security analyst told the Guardian that ‘the most pressing task for US officials’ is to ‘delay any Israeli retaliation’ in order that we might ‘achieve de-escalation’. Relax, Israel – it’s only 12 kids.
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Samizdata quote of the day – Why is it only ‘escalation’ when Israel retaliates?Perry de Havilland (Wiltshire) · International affairs · Middle East & Islamic · Military affairs · Slogans & Quotations July 29th, 2024 |
 19 comments to Samizdata quote of the day – Why is it only ‘escalation’ when Israel retaliates?Leave a Reply |
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Why? Because much of the Western world thinks that, if only that pesky Israel would do the decent thing and go away, we’d all have peace and love and unicorns from the Religion Of Peace, finally.
Israel needs to hit first. They should hold a night of blood where they send in teams to both Gaza and the West Bank to blow up every member of Hamas and the PLO that they can find – I mean ALL of them. Then I feel certain the usual suspects will tell the “Palestinians” to de-escalate.
Right?
@Ferox. Partially right. Nuke Tehran too.
Not that easy. Hamas are (literally) well dug-in. They want a defensive war. They want to fight in the rat-warrens and rookeries of Gaza. They want to fight on their own turf because they know it makes Israel look like the aggressor, they want dead babies because whilst amateur at rocketry they are Olympic-class at shroud-waving and whenever there is a pile of rubble they can rely on a crow-surge of wimmin who all look like Terry Jones as Brian’s Mum wailing and gnashing their teeth. For the Theatre of Grief they are serial Oscar winners. And of course they know full-well that whatever material damage they suffer will be put right by the “International Community”. Of course they’ll use a smidge of that that to build a Potemkin maternity ward and the rest will be appropriated by Hamas. As to their losses of life. It doesn’t matter because their Terry’s whelp out implings at a prodigious rate.
People who criticise Hamas for not caring about the people of Gaza miss the point. Hamas cares deeply about maintaining the place as Mordor on the Med. Gaza could, in principle, be a great little city-state there but then folks in such places tend not to be so up for mayhem and martydom because they’re too busy choosing curtains.
Gaza is a tragedy in the classical sense that it is in a piteous state by it’s own design. The farce is that almost everyone buys the narrative. I mean, “Queers for Palestine”! A mere ten years ago I would have thought that was crude satire.
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind
David Lammy: I’m sure this dickhead really inspires fear among the Iranian regime and its proxies.
Not exactly Lord Palmerston, is he?
As the writer Douglas Murray has said, the new Prime Directive seems to be that the West ( I include Israel in that) shall not act in self defence and crush its enemies.
Israel: just ignore what these goblins say.
Test.
Unfortunately Israel is still struggling against an entrenched Leftwoke 5th column that includes the upper echelon of the IDF.
The fighters and mid-level officers are in revolt against the attache-case generals who were brainwashed at Soros-sponsored think tanks with Oslo dreams and fed the mantras of “a small smart army” fighting a “limited war”.
The Left-controlled judiciary has also tried to prosecute soldiers for “mistreating” terrorists.
We are all fighting the same disease.
The “bottom line” is partly that the Western powers always want to “make a deal”.
For example, as long ago as 1946 the United States government demanded that government of the Republic of China stop its offensive in Manchuria against the Communist Party forces – this offensive was succeeding, the Communists were being defeated. And that was precisely the problem as far as the “Old China Hands” in Washington were concerned – after all how could there be a deal with the Communists, via talks, if the Communists were killed?
So the American government demanded that Chang stop the offensive – which he did. That decision doomed tens of million so of Chinese to death under the vicious Marxist Dictator Mao, and may well doom the entire world – make no mistake there can be no “accommodation” with the People’s Republic of China Communist Party Dictatorship – eventually either that regime goes, or we go (go – cease to exist).
So it is not just Islamic groups such as Hamas (not that Islamic Jihad and the other groups are any better than Hamas) that the Western powers, insanely, demand an accommodation with – they do it with other enemies as well.
But there is another factor at work – specifically in relation to Israel.
Although the United States was one of the first powers to recognise Israel – we now know that the Truman Administration (not just the State Department – the Administration generally) did NOT expect Israel to survive – recognising Israel was just a ploy for American domestic politics (specifically New York State – for President Truman knew it was likely he would be up against Governor Tom Dewey of New York – and the Republican Governor of New York was strongly pro Israel, indeed Governor Dewey’s chief of staff became the first General in the Israeli army).
The American government did NOT (contrary to the myth) give Israel vital aid in the 1940s – what would be point, the Jews were going to be wiped out anyway (we now know this is what the Truman Administration believed).
The British government also expected the Jews to be wiped out – and was fairly relaxed about that.
The existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East “complicates things” – and, although they do not say so publicly, the Western powers would not be too upset to see Israel wiped off the map. They also, mistakenly, think that the Islamic population that is growing up in Western Europe, and even as far away as the United States and Australia, would be more peaceful if Israel was eliminated. They are, again, mistaken about that – but that is what they, the Western elite, believe.
There is also the added problem that Israel is an increasingly socially conservative country – indeed it is the only Western country that is far more conservative now than it was 60 years ago.
Western powers associate such things as Nationalism (and Zionism is Nationalism – Jewish Nationalism) and religion with being “primitive”.
Yet Israel is a very advanced country – the idea of a very advanced country being independent (nationalistic), religious, and socially conservative, troubles Western elites.
Again, in their minds, things would be far easier to understand, far less complicated and confusing, if Israel (the Jews) was eliminated.
Hamas are Sunni.
Hezbollah are Shia.
Please note that as far as their relations with people outside Islam are concerned – it makes no difference.
There are indeed differences, very important differences, between Sunni and Shia – but not on relations with people outside Islam.
As for demonising the Jews.
Mr Putin and his “RT” television station do that all the time – watching RT (yes I do, via Rumble) gives the impression that Jews are demons rather than human beings – demons engaged in a policy of “genocide” (the fact that the Muslim population of the land “between the river and the sea” goes UP every year would indicate that this “genocide” is the most incompetent in history).
Does all the hatred directed at Jews by the media of Mr Putin mean that Russia is spared Islamic attacks?
No it does not. There are such attacks in Russia – and sometimes they are so obvious that the authorities can not cover them up.
The policy of “look we hate the Jews as much as you do” does-not-work.
BenDavid.
Absolutely – the bureaucracy, including the judges (who are appointed by other judges – there is no democratic input at all) and the General Milley (an American General who is infamous for endless lying and “Woke” antics) style high officers in the IDF, are a dagger at the throat of Israel.
At best the top brass of the IDF and the intelligence services failed in the run up to October 7th 2023 – I say “at best”, because there is still that nagging thought that they knew an attack was coming, but did nothing to prevent it – because they thought it would “get Bibi out”.
Then we watched the results of “Gun Control” – over a thousand mostly unarmed Jews killed, depending on a few “first responders” and other such.
As George Orwell (Eric Blair) pointed out (and as writers for thousands of years before him pointed out) a government which disarms its own citizens does not trust them, and certainly does not intend to stay a “free country” – as Orwell put it “the rifle on the wall of the ordinary labourer” shows that Britain is free country (sadly this has changed).
Israel has many external enemies – but the enemy within, the elite bureaucracy (including in the judicial system and the military) is the most dangerous enemy.
The same is true of other Western nations – their most dangerous enemy is the elite of officials and “experts”, both government and corporate.
Well there are reports of explosions in a Hizbollah-controlled area of Beirut for which the IDF is claiming causation. Some were wondering if this next step would come. Or is it just a ‘pin prick’ strategy, or something like the 2006 Lebanon war which was badly conceived and inevitably badly-executed.
Lammy’s masters, who won’t even identify the Southport slasher as a Muslim, are humiliated by the Jews, who won’t stand for their children being slaughtered with impunity.
Don’t worry. Prez Kammi is ON IT! She’ll have that whole area settled down by lunch on Thursday.
(ETA: We are so screwed right now.)
The “bottom line” is partly that the Western powers always want to “make a deal”.
Which is fine. It’s fine when dealing with rational actors. We do it all the time. I want a sandwich, the shop wants my money. It’s a deal. A “deal, deal-type deal”*. But… Hamas are not rational actors in the normal sense. For sure (see my above comment) they know how to play the game but it is a zero-sum game. They will not stop, ever. They will not stop until they have it all, “From The River To The Sea”.
And if that happens… Israel is fallen. Islam’s bette-noire is no more. So, that’s it? No. Of course not! Islam has slain the Dragon and that means it can gobble the sheep. If Israel fails then we are fucked. It will be a rallying cry that shall sound from every every minaret from Bradford to Baghdad.
And it will be The Darkness. Because Islam is evil, repulsive and The Road to Hell.
*Bonus points if you get where that line is from…
I keep telling you nice people this, but you cannot deal with the Islamic world on your sweet little 21st Century idealist terms.
You need to shift back to where they’re coming from, which is the very unenlightened 7th through 9th Centuries. If what you are saying or doing is something that the denizens of that era would recognize and understand? You are on the right track. If not? You’re wasting your damn time.
We’ve got historical precedence, here: We know what it took to reform German and Japanese culture, to break them of their imperialist habits. 10-15% of the population dead, their infrastructure and economy mostly destroyed, and their military potential utterly crushed. That’s a starting point; with the Germans you were dealing with a more-or-less civilized people, accustomed to the norms. With the Japanese, it was the Emperor who made the Occupation work. You want peace with Islam? Guess what that all implies…
My guess is, given the generally lower IQ in the Islamic world, you’re going to have to kill a bunch more of them to get their attention. How many more? Up to them, really, but it ain’t going to be pleasant.
Kirk,
I dunno. Germany kicked the habit of 12 years. Islam has been at it for a hundred times as long. It’s the difference between dealing with someone who has gone on a bender and a chronic alcoholic who has been doing it for decades. I do see where you’re coming from but…
@NickM
It isn’t just a matter of how long an ideology has been around for. There’s a huge difference too between secular ideologies and religious ideologies.
Nazism promised the goods in this world, not in some other world. It was predicated on the crushing superiority of the German people, a superiority which should have guaranteed victory. So military defeat was, in itself, enough to take most of the wind out of the sails of Nazi ideology. Not entirely, obviously, as there are still some adherents of Nazi ideology around but there aren’t enough of them left to pose an existential threat to the rest of us, however much some ‘anti-Nazi’ activists might wish there were, if only to give their pointless lives some meaning.
Religious ideologies are a different kettle of fish entirely. Muslims may very well believe in the inevitability of Islamic hegemony on earth at some point but there’s no clock ticking on that. The victory that matters is in the afterlife and defeats in this life don’t compromise that victory. It’s a lot harder to defeat an ideology like that by force.
AFT – agreed. Islam is a whole system of ideas – from metaphysics to a legal code.
It has been around for about 14 centuries and has included some very powerful thinkers in its ranks.
The idea that Muslims or their children in Britain or France (or wherever) will just give up Islam because of pop music or Association Football, or whatever passes for what is left of Western Culture these days, is absurd. On the contrary – the decline of Western culture means that they are more (not less) likely to turn to Islam.
Nor can Islam be defeated by bombs and bullets – as more than 20 years in Afghanistan made very clear.
Yet the Western establishment still refuses to understand it is in a battle of IDEAS – and, indeed, punishes anyone who tries to argue against Islam or its founder.
And this includes the religious establishment.
For example, I am told that arguments against Islam, which used to be part of the training of a Roman Catholic priest, have not been taught in seminaries for 60 years (that undermining serious training was part of the Vatican II project – but others will correct me if I am mistaken).
No wonder priests, and Protestant ministers, seem so clueless in relation to Islam.
A modern philosopher who influenced Pope Paul VI (of Vatican II) was his friend Jacques Maritain.
Jacques Maritain was a very nice and well meaning person – but, to put things gently, he was rather limited.
For example, Maritain was easily fooled by Saul Alinsky (the Chicago Collectivist whose work influenced both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) – believing that Alinsky wanted to build up community self help organisations (nothing could be further from the truth – as the “Community Organisers” of Allinksy were-and-are about demanding bigger government).
Maritain also helped write the international declaration of human rights (of the United Nations) – which contains no really clear commitment to fundamental liberties, but does include “holidays with pay”.
This is what philosophy, and theology, had sunk to by the 1940s – just demands for more government spending and regulations (all presented in the language of rights and natural law – by people who did not have a clue what they were talking about).
Whatever their foes make think of them – Islamic theologians and legal thinkers take their role seriously, they do NOT just spend their time whining for more money and regulations and calling such whining “thought”.