The now, sadly deceased Chairman of a Parish Council (a toothless level of government in most cases), in Suffolk, the late James Arnold has been found to have had the largest ever gun hoard found in England, says the Daily Mail, reporting on a linked case involving a living firearms dealer.
This is the terrifying collection of nearly 500 guns and 200,000 rounds of ammunition which was seized from a parish council chairman who collected firearms ‘like stamps’.
There seems to be no suggestion that the arsenal was intended for any other purpose than to be hoarded, and from the pictures a lot of the ammo appears to be inert, and none of the weapons have been linked to any crimes.
(The police) revealed that, had the weapons fallen into the wrong hands, they would have been enough to arm nine coach-loads of terrorists. Chief Superintendent David Skevington said: ‘James Arnold never offered any explanation for what he did; he simply said he had come by the weapons years ago and kept them safe to stop them causing any harm.
‘We have asked every question and followed every line of inquiry and have found no evidence of a criminal or terrorist motive.
Well quite, in Suffolk, there is little terrorist activity. Although historically, Saint and King Edmund was martyred somewhere not too far away, and the Danish culprits appear to have escaped justice. Mr Arnold was arrested 3 months before his untimely death from pancreatic cancer, aged 49. The Mail notes, almost chafing, methinks
After the 49-year-old’s arrest in 2014, Arnold died of pancreatic cancer, meaning he could never face prosecution
I don’t know, these days being dead is no bar to a police investigation, even if you were the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Plod are to devote a year to going through Sir Edward Heath KG’s papers, and they aren’t even considering treason charges for bringing about the UK’s entry into the EEC, which could at least lead to a reprise of Cromwell’s posthumous fate.
I note that on the OP, commenter Big George says
Big George, Michigan, United States, 2 hours ago
This is known as a “starter set” in Texas.
I was amused by the use of the adjective “terrifying”. Whether that tells you more about the mindset of the article’s author or the debasement of the language is left as an exercise for the reader.
That looks like a collection of very ordinary weapons (rifles, mostly). And the “ammunition” shown is risible: there is nothing visible in those photos but empty brass casings and expended bullets. No “ammunition” to be seen. The level of ignorance on display here is striking.
The missing point here is how, despite our wonderful government agencies keeping us safe, so many pieces and ammunition had been “acquired” in the UK?
“Had the weapons fallen into the wrong hands, they would have been enough to arm nine coach-loads of terrorists” is more an indictment of the police than Mr Arnold, they should be praising him that they ended up in an underground bunker and not in the hands of a man praising a deity in a crowded London nightclub.
The image titled “Pictured is some of the 200,000 rounds of ammunition which was found at James Arnold’s home” seems to show expended cases, I’m not sure this qualifies as “ammunition” unless you use a slingshot or something.
Oops, forgot to closed the quote tag there. Couple more comments though.
The bullets are not expended, they are in too good a shape for that. These are rounds that have either been broken down or not assembled (probably the former. I think you can see the crimp marks)
My first thought (before I saw the picture) was a forgotten cache of military weapons but they clearly are not. Next thought was an IRA weapons cache. However, the broken-down ammunition makes me suspect that these were weapons that were confiscated by the police and “fell of the back of the lorry” on their way to be destroyed. Draw your own conclusions from that…
The guy who supplied some of the firearms has been jailed for six years according to that article. Oh the wrath of the state when they get a chance to be seen to be doing something about violent crime and don’t have to risk being accused of racism at the same time. Such a shame it won’t make any difference to violent crime rates anywhere, but as long as they get to pose in front of a camera while showing off some frightening weapons I suppose it’s all worth it…
Richard, I defer to your superior expertise as to whether those rounds were “expended”, “broken down” or “not assembled”. However, the fact remains that there does not appear to be a single round of live ammunition in any of the photos provided by the Daily Mail (and I went through all 37 of them). Mr. Arnold could perhaps have “armed” nine coach-loads of terrorists, but their weapons would all have been unloaded.
In Texas this may be a starter set, and I suspect that there are also a number of larger caches to be found in Ireland.
So, when’s the estate auction? I’ve been meaning to get into a retro Colt for some time.
Nah… even in Texas, 500 guns is an impressive collection. At the height of my own gun-collecting frenzy, I never had more than about 200 (less than half that, now).
If you want to see a REALLY impressive private gun collection, visit the J.M. Davis Museum in Claremore, Oklahoma, which was collected by said Mr. Davis over a period of fifty-odd years. I’ve been there, and had to stuff tissues in my mouth to avoid leaving a drool-trail. (My favorite? A WWII FG-42, estimated value about $250,000.)
Returning to the story: as pointed out by Laird, what amuses me is the hysteria. A gun collection is “terrifying”? For whom? And “if terrorists got hold of it”… oh, FFS. Do I have to explain why this is such specious bullshit? Okay: if ISIS likewise got hold of the contents of my kitchen, they could feed a brigade for a month! Who “needs” so much food?
More to the point, if anyone got hold of all the rope I keep in my garage, they could hang over five hundred socialist politicians before having to re-use a single noose. Now there’s a thought…
Except for the LAWS launcher I didn’t see anything I couldn’t own legally in Colorado. When is the estate sale?
Actually sending these back to the U.S. would partially make up for all the personal weapons we sent over there at the outset of WWII which were destroyed by the British government as soon as the populace was perceived as a bigger threat than the Germans.
Phew! I’m just glad the fine upstanding state apparatus has saved us all again. Maybe he dismantled the ammunition to make fireworks for the village fete?
The Mail notes, almost chafing, methinks
After the 49-year-old’s arrest in 2014, Arnold died of pancreatic cancer, meaning he could never face prosecution
I haven’t consulted my Blackstone in a while, which I’m sure is still good law in England, but surely the Crown could bring an in rem action against these guns; put them on the stand and cross-examine them (“Isn’t it true, AR-15, that you would not oppose the attempt of a terrorist to fire you, that you would claim you were just following orders?”), ask them if they had any alibis for their whereabouts all those years (“How do we know you weren’t involved in the commission of a crime? Do you seriously expect the jury to believe that it was not you, but people, who killed people?”). Justice demands no less!
“Ammunition on display at Suffolk Police headquarters which were part of the biggest hoard of illegal weapons ever uncovered in the UK”
Uh … Guys at the Mail?
I realize you’re Brits and thus can’t possibly know anything about arms [I kid], but that is not ammunition.
Those are bullets.
They can’t be shot without a cartridge casing, primer, and gunpowder.
They’re no more a weapon than a small rock or a bolt or a glass marble is.
Likewise the following picture of unloaded cartridges; completely harmless and useless. You could only hurt someone with them by whipping them with one of the belts or maybe making them choke on them by shoving them in their mouth.
(Further nitpicks: All of the “anti-tank rockets” involved look to be either empty tubes or display dummies.
That’s not an AK, it’s an RPK; you can tell by the barrel length and bi-pod.
Pretty sure that Calico is a mere pistol, not an SMG; the SMGs [machine-pistols, in this case] have an extended butt and foregrip.
Why does that L85 have a “foregrip” on the buttstock?
Why does the picture for “museum pieces from the world wars” show a new-ish Taurus revolver?
Ah, the media…)
I remain terrified just in case, and because the article told me to. And now Kim with that rope of his – the horror, where’s the government when you need it?
Alisa, all my rope is registered, and I have a federsl Knot Proficiency Licence, so I’m allowed to possess it. (I know, shuddup Kim, don’t give them ideas.)
federal
Billll, llllook again. Thompson, sten, bren, M3, Bergmann, FAL, sawed offs, STG.
Usually these “arsenals” are trash and not as much as I have in my car. Not this time, this is impressive and would get you long prison time anyplace.
And if this is terrifying, I hope they never see the trooping of the colour!
A worn old piece of rope walked into a bar.
The bar tender asked ‘Are you a lethal weapon?‘.
The piece of rope twisted himself into a reef, and replied ‘I’m a frayed knot!’.
“Although historically, Saint and King Edmund was martyred somewhere not too far away, and the Danish culprits appear to have escaped justice.”
They escaped justice, yes, but not it would seem performing an unusual amount of atonement. In less than a generation, those vikings became Christians (helped, perhaps, by the experience of repeatedly being beaten by King Alfred the Great – it seems to have undermined their faith in the old Norse gods), after which they became devotees of Saint Edmund, to show how sorry they were. (Or so I guess their reason: whatever the motive, it is well-attested that precisely those East Anglian Danes who had killed him – or their fathers had – became very enthusiastic admirers of their local saint king’s shrine.)
(If your kids are being force-fed PC history at school, I recommend C Walter Hodges’ ‘The Namesake’ and ‘The Marsh King’ for readable coverage of these events.)
“and none of the weapons have been linked to any crimes.”
The more active fraction of anti-gun types oppose private ownership of guns not because those guns might be used in a crime, but because they consider private ownership of guns to be a malum in se crime in its own right: “Conspiracy to commit criminal self-defense” or “Blasphemy against Unlimited Government (Blessed be its Holy Name!)” or even “Treason against Civilization Itself.”
(The police) revealed that, had the weapons fallen into the wrong hands, they would have been enough
to kill Jean Charles de Menezes several times over.
I am always a little puzzled by the authorities’ contention that someone with two guns is more dangerous than someone with one. Except for the ambidextrous ‘villain’, of course.
“This is the terrifying collection of nearly 500 guns and 200,000 rounds of ammunition which was seized from a parish council chairman who collected firearms ‘like stamps’.”
But apparently not. They’ve been there for what appears to have been a considerable period. Without terrify anyone. Surely, someone would have said, otherwise.
Oh! They’re now in the hands of the British Police. I see what you mean.
That is terrifying!
Well I am going to Suffolk tomorrow with the Sage of Kettering, we have an appointment to visit Satan himself, and if we find 9 coachloads of Jihadis or the like rummaging around for another stash, I will let you know.
In next week’s news: “Satan discovers moral AGENCY, favors spending originating from SAVINGS”.
The costumed thugs should think themselves lucky.
If a man was dying of pancreatic cancer and had a huge gun collection… ever see The Shootist? Plod could easily have found themselves with something to really blubber about.
I didn’t see anything that would have been illegal in my state, unless that LAWS actually had a rocket loaded. At least, I don’t think any of it would have been but I didn’t scrutinize too closely for nopew-pew-pewpewpew switches.
When my father was born (1913) a lot of firearms and ammunition in a house would have been a matter of indifference to the government.
Indeed the man would have been considered a public spirited individual – as it was still considered the duty of British people to defend themselves and their country. There were millions of people in the British National Rifle Association and a vast Constitutional Club Network.
Even socialists decades later still thought in these terms – for example Erik Blair (George Orwell) mused about how the rife on the wall of the cottage of the ordinary man.
It is a different country now – a place I do not really understand.
But America has changed to.
In the 1950s it was normal for students at High Schools to take their firearms to school – shooting was a popular sport in American schools (there were shooting ranges and so on).
Today if you put your fingers together and go “bang-bang” you are expelled.
Laird and the other Americans in the thread.
You do know that the education system is producing a generation of socialist zombies?
Paul, –or if you are 7 years old (maybe it was 5) and chew your sandwich into the shape of something some Afeart Lady thinks is the shape of a pistol. Away with the lad!
Laird, the description of this Arsenal reminds me of your link to the clip from Tremors. :>)!
Nah… even in Texas, 500 guns is an impressive collection.
No kidding. Whether or not one considered it advisable, not many people have the money and the space for a collection like that.
Stag:
One form 4 and 1 (more) background check and I can own the whole lot. No problemo.
Well that’s true of most of them but you didn’t mention the NFA.
Maybe not the L85 though. If it’s a full auto, it’s post- 1986.
Oops not the sawn off pump either, serial is removed.
And you can have guns in England, too, with special government permission. Even machine guns.
Laird, quite so. No powder either. Though perhaps the police broke them down?
I am heartened that the 800+ comments are largely taking the piss out of the overhyped and breathless tone of the reporting. The man was a licenced gun owner, who was therefore legally allowed to own guns, whose collecting habit had clearly got the better of him.
Some of the guns are of historical interest, and I hope the police have the decency not to destroy them, but this being Britain, I would not bet on it.
Somehow the notion that the police assigned some very junior member the job of disassembling all those buckets of bullets and separating the brass, the lead, and presumably the powder into multiple buckets seems like cruel and unusual punishment for someone.
Unless of course you’re planning to use the powder for some home made Guy Fawkes Day pyrotechnics.
Maybe my eyes are getting old and feeble, but some of those weapons have the look of replicas about them.
However – the Lanchester looks real enough. Oh, boy.
llater,
llamas
Pitiful, just pitiful. Home of the Magna Charta.
It can’t last, of course.
A bayonet on an Uzi ?
Silly Silly Silly
This is a similar tale to that of “Mick’s Guns”, a registered firearms dealer whom the police raided with much clamour, and newspaper PR. Only to lose the case because he was entitled to have every single gun….that, of course, didn’t get any publicity at all. Btw, I recommend his website, some good stuff there.
Oh, and I’m not that Mick!
I had an uncle liked collecting firearms & other weapons. Had to be sold off, after he died. Inheritance tax an’ that. I’ve still got the auction catalogue. Auction took two days.
Happy childhood memories. The Sten was cool but firing a 4 pounder cannon over the lake was the best.
Nowadays in Britain you could have a reign of terror with a balloon on a piece of stick.
As others have pointed out, fired cartridge cases, loose bullets and cast lead bullets dating back at least a century (to get into the state they are in) hardly constitutes “ammunition”.
But having studied the course of firearms legislation and attending a lecture by Colin Greenwood way back in 1981, the constant mantra by the ACPO that they “want to reduce the numbers of firearms in the hands of civilians to the minimum” (and anything nort of zero is too many) the inevitabble result of the process is exactly this. A population so unfamiliar with firearms and having had 95 years of scare propaganda continuously fed them, they are indeed terrified of the THOUGHT of people owning firearms.
The firearms will be destroyed, not sold. It is ACPO and Home Orifice policy.
Which is a great pity. There are some very nice examples there that I’d love to have in my collection (which is an order of magnitude smaller than his, though some of my oldest pieces were made for the British East India Company).
Not the L85, however. Not for legal reasons, but because left handers don’t do well firing right handed bullpups…
He was a licensed gun owner? He didn’t have them as a fundamental right? Did Maggie Carter die in vein?
Phil:
I know that none of the guns will be sold off, but I was hoping, probably in vain, that some could be retained as museum pieces. But I agree, this being Britain, the chances are they will be melted down because guns are bad.
You are lucky to have heard the great Greenwood speak, I read his book Firearms Control some years back, written in the 1970s, and still one of the few examinations of the history of the lies and obfuscations behind British firearms legislation. I used to enjoy his magazine Guns Review very much, until that closed down in the wake of the handgun ban.
I believe that Greenwood can still be found in the hills above the Calder valley in West Yorkshire. I wish he was still writing, because his views on firearms were always worth reading.