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Samizdata quote of the day The Taliban child murderers in Pakistan are beyond the bounds of reason or common humanity just as much as the individual lunatic who flies their flag for a brief moment of glory in a coffee shop. Properly speaking, what Sony did, and what the political leaders who advise talking to the Taliban are suggesting, is not appeasement as we knew it in the 20th century. Terrorism is not international politics – and it is not war in any conventional sense. It is criminal insanity. There can be no pragmatic settlement, no negotiation and no dealing with these enemies. Their power will only be destroyed by mortifying defeat and that means defying their threats and their demands at every point. If that puts us at risk, so be it. No life worth living is without risk.
– Janet Daley
Interestingly, Obama’s rebuke for Sony has led to some pushback. It is worthwhile speculating if such events will sour relations between Obama and many of those in the Hollywood establishment who have been among his most fervent supporters.
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Actually Mr Obama was correct in what he said about the cowardly shits who run Sony.
Although their racist “jokes” about him,behind his back – whilst proclaiming him God-Emperor of the universe to his face, may have made Mr Obama a little biased against Sony (he is not known as a tolerant or forgiving man) in this he is correct.
Mr Obama, being a Frankfurt School man, wants collectivism with a “human face” – when he says he does NOT support North Korea he is being quite sincere.
I would argue that his collectivism with a human face (with “better people” – i.e. HIMSELF) in charge, is an illusion. That it is the principle of collectivism that is the problem – not Mr Kim or Mr Castro happening to be bad people. I do not deny the sincerity of Mr Obama.
Mr Obama sincerely believes that one can have collectivism and freedom at the same time – and the Hollywood crowd agree with him.
Their view of the future is summed up in shows such as “Star Trek: New Generation”, NOT the science fiction elements (they are not really interested in technology), but in the developments in SOCIETY.
Islam is, to these people, just nice folk dances or whatever – people who actually BELIEVE in it (such as the Taliban) leave them baffled – sincerely baffled.
As for Mr Kim and Mr Castro?
Why are they so nasty at times? Socialism is supposed to be make everyone happy – and it will, when “better people” take charge……
Paul Marks
It is easy for Mr Obama, who is surrounded at all times by armed guards and steel dooras, to demand courage of other people. It is also cowardly and stupid. Those who were threatened took the decision, rightly or wrongly, bravely or otherwise, for commercial and personal reasons that are less than clear to the rest of us, including Obama. They took that decision because it was theirs to take, not his or anyone else’s.
It is typical of Obama, and of the left in general, to demand that their principles should be defended not by their own sacrifice, but by that of others. I didn’t expect to hear you defending the idea, however.
THW – because it is only by standing firm that these people will be defeated. Giving in once merely means they come back for a bigger slice of obsequity next time. So Obama is right – and unlike him, I don’t have guards or steel doors to protect me. I travel out and about and there is a risk I might get blown up on the rail network or the underground. And I am prepared to risk that, for the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about. By giving in, those who appease risk all of us.
Obama himself is a serial mass murderer. Drone strikes often miss their targets, but they always kill numerous bystanders. By now, Obama’s kill count is several times what the Taliban animals achieved in that school.
But the real champions are the Communists, at least 150 million killed in peace time, all their own citizens.
The most fervent supporters of the Wun are The Criminal’s Collective; i.e. Wall Street with his generous largesse and high borrowing in support of their institutions.
It’s easy to be brave when surrounded by armed guards and soldiers with kill sticks who’re not allowed any where near him, just like Hitler.
When dealing with an enemy you must ask yourself:
1. What do they want?
2. What will make them stop?
3. Is there anything we can give them, or give up to make them stop?
With the Islamists the answers are:
1. Your total unconditional defeat. The destruction of your current belief system and way of life. Your subservience to their God/ideals/whims.
2. Their total unconditional defeat or their total destruction.
3. Nothing short of your total unconditional defeat. The destruction of your current belief system and way of life. Your subservience to their God/ideals/whims.
Liberals believe the answers to be:
1. Us to stop interfering in their lives.
2. Leaving them alone, apologising for our past actions and their present actions.
3. Money. Approval. Profuse apologies. Make our culture as similar to theirs as possible in order to not offend or provoke them.
Pushback from Hollywood toward Obama? It seems to have started. Variety, which might be considered the voice of Hollywood, was rather harsh on Obama over this incident. http://variety.com/2014/film/opinion/how-obama-took-sonys-crisis-from-bad-to-worse-1201384780/
1. Agreed.
2. Trident.
3. Trident.
Ditto North Korea’s communists.
Didn’t Obama say, about Sony, “I wish they had spoke to me first”? Says it all.
“I wish they had spoke to me first”
“I would’ve had their back like I did with that Nakouda guy and all the countless other times I’ve gone into bat for the freedom of speech of American citizens.”
Remember that other movie, “Innocence of Muslims”? Wasn’t that guy arrested with Obama’s consent?
And about those racist emails, it’s time to review them. They just didn’t seem all that racist to me. I thought they were just two people wondering what movies Obama would like, and it seems reasonable to assume black-themed movies would be at the top. It’s not like they mentioned Blacula or Shaft.
And even assuming some apology to the Black race was in order (which it wasn’t) how is it a sufficient ablution to put that worm Sharpton on the Sony board? Imagine the reasoning here. “I thought Obama might like the award winning movie ’12 Years a Slave’. For my penance, I’ll promote the well-known buffon who once exploited a young girl’s fear of her stepfather for his own gain.”
Thank you, Kevin. Nakouda is the guy I was thinking of.
PM –
‘Why are they so nasty at times? Socialism is supposed to be make everyone happy – and it will, when “better people” take charge……’
A more elegant way of stating what I have been saying for years.
Socialism will work when the ‘right people’ are running it.
The fact that it never has worked is simply because the ‘right people’ have not yet been found & put in charge!
The true believers ‘know’ this and will never be swayed by facts or history !
Mr. Ed.
ditto
>Their power will only be destroyed by mortifying defeat and that means defying their threats and their demands at every point.
Ms. Daley’s claim is patently ridiculous. If one of those monstrous terrorists had been pointing a gun at one of the kids and the kid had an escape route to get away, by her rule he should have not run but “defied his threat”. Falstaff is correct, sometimes discretion (meaning caution) is the better part of valor.
Often small retreats are prudent when the alternative is the charge of the light brigade.
I don’t have enough information to truly assess the seriousness of the threat against Sony, but were the threat legitimate and realistic then I think they might have made the right decision. Corporations are for profit, not for courage.
Meanwhile, AOL “reports” in their headline that an Islamist gent, in France, with “previous mental problems, shouted “God is Great” before plowing his car into a group of random pedestrians (that apparently weren’t Islamists-were they “celebrating” the Christmas season?).
I’m pretty sure an Islamist, in France, didn’t shout “God is Great”.
AOL “news” has an “affiliation” with Huffington Post.
Of course, I COULD be wrong.
Their power will only be destroyed by mortifying defeat and that means defying their threats and their demands at every point.
If you ‘defy’ a bully by daring him to kick you in the bollocks, the only things likely to be “destroyed by mortifying defeat” are … your bollocks.
Re socialists wanting the ‘right people’ in charge – I would argue that this is an instance of what seems to be an instinctive political maxim: “The world would be a better place if only it were run by and for people like me”. Unfortunately socialists are not the only ones affected by such notions …
@Jake Haye
> If you ‘defy’ a bully by daring him to kick you in the bollocks, the only things likely to be “destroyed by mortifying defeat” are … your bollocks.
Right on. It is so seductive to talk tough and fill the air with bravado bullshit sitting in your upper west side cafe, sipping your latte. The world is more complicated than that.
Ultimately the solution to the terrorist problem is rot from within. It is the rejection of the culture of death that supports and feeds them, it is the finding of an alternative and better way to live your life. The Islamic people, or the people of those lands need to embrace western, pluralistic, egalitarian, free market beliefs. They need to put reason, science and logic above religion. And people only do that when it is evidently beneficial to do so. Only this way will the blood supply be cut off.
However, to do that means we have to do things that western governments are more and more afraid of. Encourage free markets in these places. Offer people the right to defend themselves on a personal level, rather than proxying it to government or American armies.
How? A few things they could easily have done: instead of training the Iraqi and Afghanistan military with US troops, why not issue free handguns to anyone who completed a basic self defense course? How about providing micro loans to local men and women who wanted to start their own businesses? How about setting up schools that taught western values, including hard work and good business?
When ISIS were killing, murdering and raping the various tribes in NW Iraq, an airdrop of some personal weapons would have gone a long way to sorting out the atrocities. If the US government can give them to Mexican drug lords, why not a few innocent people under brutal attack?
At the very least it will mean that the terrorists will be busy killing the infidels in their midst rather than us. Not good, but better. I did read somewhere that ISIS are very anti idolatry, and one of their plans is to destroy the Kabaa in Mecca. Perhaps we should help them with that goal. I think if they did that Islam would be a lot less tolerant of them, and I think that the Saudis would deal with them brutally and effectively.
Needless to say, the Western governments will do none of these things because they are entirely out of alignment of their philosophy.
Fraser Orr
December 22, 2014 at 8:28 pm
I have a simpler method to the same end.
Hashish and pornography.
http://news.yahoo.com/jumblatt-joint-statement-legalise-hash-lebanon-213109230.html
The Israelis are working the pornography bit – look it up.
Here it is:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/internet-porn-jewish-ploy-to-corrupt-muslims/
Defeated By Pornography
Jewish Porn Sweeps The Arab World
Sorry Surellin, but I quit reading after they referred to that sack of lies as a ‘constitutional scholar’ yet again. I do take your point as to the source of criticism – buyers’ remorse and all that.
Didn’t someone make a film blaming ‘the Jews’ for Pearl Harbor? IIRC it was called ‘Torah!, Torah!, Torah!’.
I would add that the punditry are only ‘talking tough’ in this instance because the Norks are not seen as a serious threat. Everybody knows they are just ronery.
On the other hand if it were the muzzbots threatening Sony, the Obamastan govt would now be banning the film and prosecuting Sony for being insufficiently respectful of Islam, and those brave commentators would be considerably more circumspect in expressing their views on the matter.
Of course, neither Sony nor anybody else would risk making such a film …
Disagree entirely. People tend to assume that murderers are insane – they usually aren’t. Most of the time, they are sanely pursuing ends that are kind of bonkers. I’ve heard a fairly convincing argument that the slaughter of children was symbolic etaliation for a Pakistani military campaign that’s killed a lot of children in Taliban areas, for example.
They’re still scum, and they still need to die. But in order to defeat an enemy, it helps to understand them, and cliches don’t help with that.
Well here’s the BBC report on a deliberate van incident in France, somehow sruggling to understand what was behind it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30583390
Mr Ed
December 22, 2014 at 10:34 pm
Yeah. The contradictions are funny.
None of the three men involved in the attacks has so far been found to have any radical religious links
real anxiety here about the number of French citizens drawn to violent Islamist groups
The Ripley Option. See what Allah has contra that.
Paul Marks:
You might enjoy Timothy Sandefur’s article “Star Trek and the history of liberalism,” which compares the politics of Next Gen to the politics of the original series.
Alsadius:
Rational pursuit of an insane goal is still insane. I think you’ve mistaken rationality for sanity.
I agree with a poster above that what’s needed is a sustained dismantling of Islam as a belief system. Of course it will never happen.
But then, it might, indirectly. Islam probably would have waned decades ago like other religions if not for oil.
Easy wealth from oil has kept medievalism alive – and of course directly funded Wahhabism worldwide.
I would support a carbon tax if it was targeted at Islamism.
As a compromise, how about a ‘labelling’ requirement, e.g. ‘Gas sold at this station funds ISIS’ ? Ought one to know if one is paying for these types?
Ultimately the solution to the terrorist problem is rot from within. It is the rejection of the culture of death that supports and feeds them, it is the finding of an alternative and better way to live your life. The Islamic people, or the people of those lands need to embrace western, pluralistic, egalitarian, free market beliefs. They need to put reason, science and logic above religion. And people only do that when it is evidently beneficial to do so. Only this way will the blood supply be cut off.
I have to ask, have you ever lived in a strict Muslim country? I have, two in fact. You dismiss somebody else with “bravado bullshit sitting in your upper west side cafe, sipping your latte”, perhaps justifiably, but your own contribution is scarcely any better. For the belief that Muslims only need to be exposed to our way of life, and be shown the alternatives, in order to change their ways is wishful thinking. We tried this in the colonies for a couple of centuries: show the savages our superior way of life and they will become civilised like us, and by and large it didn’t work because they have no interest in becoming like us. I lived in Kuwait and the UAE for a total of 3 years: they embraced the commerce, consumer goods, even the social life of the west in many aspects, but had zero interest in the rest of what we supposedly had to offer. None. They prefer Islam, and always will. Look at the Muslims who come to the UK and Europe, for example. Here is an opportunity for them to truly embrace our way of life, yet a sizeable portion of them actively resist doing so because they don’t want to.
Islamic terrorism won’t be stopped by their embracing the Western way of life, because that simply won’t happen (not for centuries, anyway). Islamic terrorism against the West will only be stopped when it becomes extremely difficult to carry out and the price of doing so too high. Then they’ll switch their attention elsewhere, most likely to targets closer to home. In fact, that’s precisely what we’ve seen since 9/11. No more attacks on US soil, several plots to do so rumbled and so the attacks prevented, and an increase in attacks on “soft” targets such as Pakistani schools. In my opinion, it ought to be of little interest to the West how many Islamic terrorists exist or are supposedly motivated by the West’s actions; instead, the priority should be to limit their effectiveness against Western citizens, institutions, companies, and interests. I believe the Israelis figured this out a decade ago: they would prefer to be facing 1m enemies who have limited capacity to harm them than 10,000 who can cause serious damage. Hence they built the security wall, caring not a jot that this would serve as a “recruitment tool” for their enemies.
A robust response is required, at the appropriate time by the appropriate people aimed at the appropriate targets. And by robust, I mean lethal. Exposing savages to an enlightened way of living has been tried already, and it failed miserably.
“edly had to offer. None. They prefer Islam, and always will. Look at the Muslims who come to the UK and Europe, for example. Here is an opportunity for them to truly embrace our way of life, yet a sizeable portion of them actively resist doing so because they don’t want to.”
The Muslims in Kuwait stick with Islam for the same reason the Pakistani immigrants in Bradford do.
There is no compulsion to change. They’re both on welfare – the Kuwaitis on oil and the immigrants on free healthcare and council housing. They’re coasting along on old belief systems just fine.
Force them to start businesses, innovate rather than borrow, invent instead of copy – and they might find the Koran doesn’t pay the bills, cure illness, feed the family.
Instead, oil and welfare payments must seem like gifts from Allah. Their faith provides.
Same with multiculturalism. A truly free society would have no qualms about mocking Islam. Imagine a BBC program on the Failure of Islam – Indian Immigrants Outperform Muslims from Pakistan and Bangladesh at School and Work.
What Chid said: the popularity of Islam in the West has been rising in direct proportion to the growth and expansion of the welfare policies and the general PC culture (this is also why Islamism is still much less prevalent in the US than it is in Europe). At the same time, the growth in popularity of Islam outside the West can similarly be traced to the growth of the importance of oil production to the global economy. Ultimately, it is all about incentives, always has been and always will be.
Sony is a JAPANESE company, and one that has serious financial problems, so it can ill afford getting hacked constantly (Sony’s PSN service was hacked to bits a few years ago). Kaz Hirai, not Sony Pictures, made the decision to pull The Interview. Sony acted in the interests of their financial survival, quite rightly. America is not their responsibility, because they are a Japanese company.
Alisa, by welfare policies, do you mean the massive welfare subsidies handed out to oil companies, paid for by the TAXPAYER. In effect, a Dhimmi tax paid to the extremely wealthy oil giants. Trillions in profits, but hey your tax money must got to subsidize them, eh? You fine with that, are you?
Well, if our leaders didn’t shamelessly bum lick Saudi Arabia and stupidly sell them weapons, and effectively hand London to them; Saudi Islamists own a large chunk of London’s ponzi property market. Saudi Arabia is the source of Islamic extremism, where do you think all the funding comes from? Alot of screeching about ISIS and terrorism, but silence about the country that funds and enables them; Saudi Arabia and its sleazy parasitic monarchy.
Until we destroy Saudi Arabia and remove its fat leeches from our midst, we will not be safe.
Sabu says the Sony hack was not North Korea’s doing, and he’s not alone in that view. Of course, a government entity, hungry for public compliance in the surrender of their freedoms, and eager to get its greedy hands on even more taxpayer money, such as, say, the NSA, would have everything to gain from a False Flag operation which, by revealing juicy celebrity scandals, helpfully catches the attention of the public, producing maximum compliance. Doing this to a “foreign” company has the added bonus of also extending the NSA’s protection racket (remember US intelligence and millitary is historically very friendly with the Mafia, Yakuza, and Mexican gangs) and are not shy in using such fear-inducing methods.
The Hickory Wind – that is the first time I have been called out for being soft on Comrade Barack.
Pardone, the oil companies don’t receive any special “welfare subsidies”, just the same depreciation rules and similar tax provisions available to all other business enterprises.
But the idea that the Sony hack was an NSA false flag operation is intriguing. Sort of like the Stuxnet attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities? It will be interesting to see if anything comes out about that.
This is probably the best explanation for Islamic terrorism.
If Islam is dependent on a welfare state or oil money, it is a mystery as to why it is prevalent in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Tunisia, and Somalia.
Oil companies are provided with welfare subsidies? Not in the west, they’re not. Tax breaks here and there yes, but not subsidies.
Being a designer I was always partial to this.
Fraser Orr @ December 22, 2014 at 8:28 pm:
A few things they could easily have done: instead of training the Iraqi and Afghanistan military with US troops, why not issue free handguns to anyone who completed a basic self defense course?
There are plenty of firearms in private hands in these countries. Having a few pistols about is not enough to counter the firepower of an organized militia force.
How about providing micro loans to local men and women who wanted to start their own businesses?
You mean like the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh? You seem to be under the impression that the Middle East is like East Germany, with private enterprise banned. In fact it is a hotbed of private enterprise. Note that there are ubiquitous unofficial banking networks which make it difficult to block funds to jihadist groups.
How about setting up schools that taught western values, including hard work and good business?
Boko Haram! The Taliban also like bombing schools. Someone has to protect the schools against Islamist attacks. Nor does a “good business” background inoculate against jihadism. IIRC, one of the London Tube bombers was the son of a wealthy businessman who had given him a new car for his birthday.
Western civilization is the most ruthless and efficient killing machine the world has ever known.
The examples of this gruesome truth litter the last several centuries with conquests, wars, and corpses too numerous to count.
Woe to those who have eyes but do not see, and ears but do not hear.
Islam, the countries it inhabits, and the wealth it has accumulated, exist solely upon the forebearance of the west. If that tolerance disappears, so will Islam , and all it imagines it has due to the mercy of its chosen spirit.
Yamamoto understood, and his emperor was eventually shown the harsh light of reality as well, along with his generals. The other superman died in a grave of his own design, by his own hand, and the “new Roman Emperor” ended up hanging from a light pole.
Sic semper tyrannus.
Tim, the madrasas in those countries have been financed by the Saudis for years – there’s your oil money. Note that I am not saying that Islam’s origin is in welfare or oil money – that would be silly. I am saying that someone has to subsidize such an anti-life ideology, for it to remain alive. That someone has for many years now been the Western taxpayers, and the rest of humanity who base huge parts of their existence on oil energy.
I don’t feed trolls, Pardone.
Such grand words, and from an authoritative female voice on the Telegraph pages, no less…probably nothing much more than jingoism, but should probably serve a purpose – for example (say), including causing a temporary increase in an otherwise falling trend in website hits and advertising revenue. Or maybe I am wrong and it will focus world opinion on the issues.
There is an air of desperation about it all. What is one to do? Wring one’s hands?
Well, yes, I suppose you could, if it made you feel any better – at least, before your head is severed from your neck.
I’m skeptical. Let us hope that @Very retired’s hopeful words turn out to be right, but I’m sure as heck none too sanguine about it. The current leaders in the “West” would seem to have ably demonstrated that they are not quite made of the same stuff – the mettle – of many of their predecessors.
Things such as peace (the lack of much warring), easy living, declining educational standards, fuzzy thinking, corruption and “progressive socialism” have probably all conspired to cause more atrophy than we can hope to recover from in the shorter term, and when you have a world leader proclaiming that “Climate Change” (whatever that means) is the greatest threat we face, and his military leaders chime in with him, and nobody speaks up about the Emperor’s new clothes and the implications, then we arguably have a potentially disastrous world crisis of a different sort on our hands anyway.
SBF,
Given the disaster of socialism maybe we could export it to the ME. Oh? Wait. Never mind.
Slarti—I’m afraid my comment above is far from hopeful, as I surely do not wish to see the west, and the world with it, go down that path.
It is, instead, a grim assessment of the potentially grim future awaiting Islam unless it reforms itself and disempowers the fanatical segment which seems to shape its course of action, and is certainly leading it toward an abyss whose bottom is unfathomable.
You seem to believe that because the popular image of the west is a composite of the feckless incompetents who currently make up our political and cultural elites, that that’s all there is.
You, and anyone else who has that mistaken belief, are seriously in error. Under the frothy surface of that which the pc media chooses to highlight is an enormous pool of people of all ages who aren’t buying any of the crap being peddled by the elites.
The common mistake of all the opponents of ordinary middle class free people is that they are weak, distracted, uncommitted, divided by ideas, race, religion, and that they will cower in fear when confronted by an aggressive opponent with some form of “higher spirituality”.
All of our opponents over the years have felt they were superior in some way, going back to the early monarchical empires, through the conflicts of the 19th century, esp., the attitude of the southerners leading up to the Civil War, and into the calamitous 20th century wars, waged by various autocrats convinced of their superiority by virtue of racial purity, or superior spiritual qualities, or some ideological “special knowledge” that opened the book of secrets to them alone.
One after the other they found out they had miscalculated terribly, and were forced to endure the unendurable—defeat at the hands of mongrel shopkeepers and ignorant farmers.
Some of the particulars may have changed, I.e., less farmers, certainly, but there are plenty of young gamers just waiting to pilot the drones that a nation put on a war footing can produce.
I know very well the fury that boils beneath the surface as ordinary men and women read about and see video of the continuous atrocities that various fanatical Islamic groups commit, and flaunt as some type of bizarre proof of their godliness. You will not hear it from the carefully screened talking heads on the news shows, nor from the neutered political or cultural elites that dominate our public discourse.
Have lunch with the guys I know sometime, and their sons and daughters, grown now, with families of their own to raise, and protect. I truly pity the fools who would position themselves in the crosshairs of these folks by seeming to actually represent a deadly threat to their homes and families.
Not even Allah in all his mercy will be able to save them.
VR,
Yup.
BTW It looks like they have designs on the Israelis. ISIS Closing in on Israel from the North and the South
@Very retired: Absolutely, and I did see the points you were making earlier.
My apologies for probably misleading. To explain, my remarks were made hugely tongue-in-cheek, poking fun and loaded with sarcasm. I might have made more serious comment had it not been that I considered that particular QOTD to be bordering on the moronic and certainly vapid.
I deliberately referred to your remarks as “hopeful” as an amusing euphemism, intended to encourage a chuckle, there generally being nothing much hopeful about a potential bloodbath.
By the way, where you say
– I thank you for your correction as to what I should believe in – that is, for example (say), apparently whatever aligns with your beliefs – but I prefer not to hold any beliefs since they are irrational, by definition, and prone to be shattered by reality/truth.
That you may be able to see a people of significant mettle under the surface, as it were, of the middle class, is potentially a heartening thing, and I would hope it were true.
However, if, for the sake of argument, such people existed and if they seemed to have been (say) constructive in incomprehensible self-destructive group action – for example (say), in the election of a series of cretinous presidents/governments to run their country’s former society and economy into the ground, then I would find it difficult to see that as a hopeful sign. After all “By their fruits ye shall know them”.
FDR, USA, WW2.