In response to Fraser Nelson’s article about a recent book and TV series by Niall Ferguson, I came across this classic comment, from “Daniel Maris”. It blends self-loathing, bigotry, “fixed wealth” fallacies, Greenery, and other pathologies in a magnificent, take-it-with-ice, blend:
“Your praise is overblown. It was (the parts I saw) a good and interesting series, but it was hardly original stuff. Calling success factors “killer apps” doesn’t really take you much farther forward does it, however arresting the phrase?”
“However, unless I missed it, he didn’t really address the fact that the most successful economy on the planet at the moment is one that rests on a communist political dictatorship, firm rejection
of Christianity, oppression of its people, no free market in labour, no idea of private property as we would understand it, centralised planning and absence of academic freedom.”
But China has embraced elements of the free market, hence its current prosperity. Duh.
“Incidentally what does the mass immigration thing mean? Solvent can be taken to mean something that dissolves OR paradoxically it is commonly used to mean a glue.”
I think Fergon’s meaning is pretty damn obvious.
“IIRC Ferguson was claiming that it was a low figure? Is that right? Well that is absurd, because behind those 100 plus people lie 1000s of close associates and beyond them hundreds of thousands of general supporters – the sea in which they swim.”
“Mass immigration is nearly always favoured by capitalists who benefit from cheaper labour and are insulated from the negative effects (their children don’t go to the schools where 50 languages are spoken).”
Oh yes, all those evil foreigners causing trouble again.
“I suppose Scots feel they have to justify our imperial past given you find them in the forefront of the imperial project: colonisation, slaughter of natives, the slave trade and slave management (including of the women of course). It’s a dirty disgusting past and we should be ashamed of it. We should always ask how we would feel if the tables were turned (and some of us to now know how it feels).”
It is all the fault of those evil Jocks! (In fact, quite the opposite).
“Thankfully, I think the age of trade is probably coming to a close. We see the signs everywhere. Now with renewable energy, a country can have its own energy industry wherever on the global, no need to import energy. With advanced hydroponic and polytunnel agriculture we in the temperate zones can grow crops associated with the tropics. With improved recycling and use of novel materials, the need for imports is decreasing as well.”
Oh god, never mind the division of labour (Adam Smith was another Evil Scot!), we can make it all ourselves with recycled vegetables.
Have a good week.
“But China has embraced elements of the free market, hence its current prosperity. Duh.”
Arguably another point might be to compare the PRC with Taiwan in the economic stakes.
Oh, and the final paragraph you quote JP is a snorter. Having recently watched the shipping thought the Bosphorus I think we can safely conclude the age of trade is not coming to an end. As to the point on energy – barking – how much hydro potential does Belgium have?
‘the fact that the most successful economy on the planet at the moment’
For certain interpretations of the words ‘fact’ and ‘successful’
Yes, it’s truly weird that he stirs the recent success of China into some kind of claim that the age of international trade is coming to an end. This is like saying that the world is entering a new golden age of horse transport, having a few paragraphs earlier written about a newly sighted Model T Ford.
‘the fact that the most successful economy on the planet at the moment’
For certain interpretations of the words ‘fact’ and ‘successful’
Indeed, and would he personally want to live there?
So, if I understand that final quote correctly, the penultimate stage in the ascent of man is the “age of trade”. After this, just enough technology would be developed/exist such that no more would be needed and everyplace would be just like every other place and everybody would be like everyone else – much like the present day assertion that every culture is just as good as every other…
Did I understand this correctly?
“We should always ask how we would feel if the tables were turned…”
If the Victorians turned up off our shores and threatened me with a gold standard, 7% taxes, property rights, free trade, the right to bear arms, the restitution of double jeopardy, free association, and the right to remain silent, while at the same time guaranteeing the repeal of civil forfeiture and detention without trial, etc., etc., etc., I would welcome them with open arms.
Some may not care for such things, of course, but that is the way with cave-dwelling savages.
I thought too that ‘killer apps’ was a bit silly. On the whole though, I enjoyed Ferguson’s presentation.
Why did he have to go and bung in global **@+**% warming?
I thought for a second I was watching the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation.
As to the point on energy – barking – how much hydro potential does Belgium have?
Nick, I think Belgium will get an inexhaustible supply of energy courtesy of the hot air from EU functionaries.
If “Daniel Maris” has actually watched Ferguson’s television series he would know that N.G. holds that China’s recent economic success is based on its embrace of private property and the market. In this way the rulers of China have shown that they see the success of Chinese in other places (Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan….) and wish to reproduce it – but on a vastly greater success. Of course they may use their economic strength for evil – but they understand that to achieve economic strength they must embrace capitalism.
Not totally of course – but (as Ferguson also makes clear in the series) the West no longer follows these principles as strongly as it once did. Indeed in terms of taxation and government spending – China (mainland China) may be rather more capitalist (less big government) than most Western countries.
As for Christianity – Ferguson has a whole episode on the rise of Christiianity in China and its decline in Europe.
As for “Daniel Maris'” comments upon the Empire – the ignorance he displays here would be amusing, if it were not so common.
The leftist control of eduation (schools as well as universities) and the electronic media is something I “go on about” a lot, but that is because it causes terrible damage, as the bigoted ignorance of “Daniel Maris” shows.
Be careful where you go with some of this. He may indeed be fairly correct on many of the particular imports he names, but that just means that imports will be different, not ended. With nanotechnology, ubiquitous computing, high speed networking, smart systems, fusion and/or space based solar power, we could indeed see much of the food needed for a given location produced locally and much of the energy needs supplied locally. We might even be building much of our own technology in home nanofactories by 2100. But it is still a fact that all of the minerals needed for those nanotech factories are not going to be available by recycling and the most important import, human intelligence, is required to give those tools something interesting to build.
“Mass immigration is nearly always favoured by capitalists who benefit from cheaper labour and are insulated from the negative effects (their children don’t go to the schools where 50 languages are spoken).”
Huh. Is that a European thing, or is he just high?
Here in Americaland, mass immigration tends to be favored by the blinkered Left more than by “capitalists”, who seem to be mostly neutral. (And is opposed by the Conservatives, for the most part.)
After all, in 2011, rather than 1850, the most important part of “capital” is not cheap untrained laborers, but highly skilled and motivated professionals.
(Oh, there’s lots of work for relatively unskilled laborers – but it’s not the sort of thing “capitalists” go gaga over.)
Maybe – I don’t know.
I caught the last part of the series last night. I was pleasantly surprised to see a documentary presenting as simple fact -no weasel words- the inefficiency of state monopolies and the importance of competition. Incidentally last night I also watched Robocop 2, which had similar themes but a totally different message.
Dale – I agree that technology may well change what is imported.
I would not shed tears if nothing at all was imported – if this was a VOLUNTARY thing. The point about “Daniel Maris” is that he is almost certainly into putting taxes and other restrictions on imports.
Immigration:
I have a “feudal” (indeed Classical) view of the matter. I could not care less about the race of newcommers (the colour of their skin and so on), what I care about is their POLITICAL LOYALITIES.
Do immigrants to the United States (for example) give full faith and alliegence to the Consituttion of the United States, to the American polity?
And, sorry Reason magazine crowd, it is perfectly obvious that the masses of ILLEGAL “immigrants” comming over the southern border of the United States have nothing but hatred for the United States and the principles on which it is built.
They are not loyal to America – so they should not be allowed into America, and if they are already in they should be kicked out, PERIOD.
There is nothing unlibertarian in defending against enemies. And there is nothing racist in it either – after all the majority of hispanics in Arizonia (for example) support the stand against the invaders (sorry against the “undocumented immigrants”).
When has “solvent” ever been used to mean “a glue”?
Sigivald: low-skill, easily exploited labor is very useful to some capitalists.
The meat-processing industry uses vast numbers of immigrants, many of them illegals. (They are among the strongest influences opposing effective border control and strict enforcement of employment laws.)
There are other other industry sectors with similar policies.
And the high-tech industry is eager to bring in foreigners and hold down salaries. There are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of older engineers and programmers who can’t find work – while “high-tech” companies lobby for increased H-1B admissions. (An H-1B hire has this additional advantage: he’s effectively indentured to the company that brings him in.)
Er “the most successful economy on the planet” has the 94th highest per capita GDP in the world, according to the IMF (just below Macedonia). A creative use of the world successful.
It is so lucky to read your blog,it is full of useful message.