David Davis, the Tory shadow Home Secretary, has resigned over the issue of detaining terror suspects for up to 42 days. He is going to resign his seat as an MP, hold a by-election, in the hope that he can win and create a storm of public rage over this issue.
It is certainly a bold move, and a commendable one. I am glad that at least some Tory MPs have got some backbone. As a former Territorial SAS member, Davis has more guts than most.
Update: I see that parts of the right-leaning press are trying to sell the narrative that Davis is a nutcase, trying to create cover for himself in the offchance that David Cameron, Tory leader, hits any future problems. Well, I guess that is possible. Make no mistake, how the Tory party reacts to Davis’ stance will tell us quite a lot about how genuine their commitment to civil liberties, to overthrowing ID cards, etc, really is. I cannot help but believe that David Davis, a very different animal from Cameron, has probably had a very major row with his centrist boss, who I confidently predict will not repeal most of the measures this present government has passed.
Before he gets hailed as the new champion of freedom, perhaps you should check his past to see if he has always been this outspoken on such matters.
I know next to nothing on Davis by the way. I merely ask because I am familiar with the methods employed by politicians.
And needless to say of course that when dealing with them, it’s always a good idea to peek behind the curtain.
In recent years, he has sounded mostly small-l libertarian-ish (but then, so did Boris before he became mayor). DD’s wikipedia entry notes that he was a whip during the Maastricht treaty’s passage through parliament, that he suspended the Monday Club’s affiliation with the Tory party because of their views on race and that he voted against repeal of section 28.
Cynical as I am, this seems to me to be a principled move. He’s not made any friends in the Tory hierarchy by it, apparently. Maybe he is one of the few who has woken up to the perilous state Britain is in.
My last post got smited, presumably because it included a word that rhymes with ‘pace’.
He has tended towards libertarian positions in the past few years, but with some compromises towards the Daily Mail wing of the Tory party in the past.
Concur absolutely…you can believe that this is not just about 42 hours.
I hope it’s not too much to believe that there are other true Torys prepared to put their despairing country before party loyalty.
I sincerely hope that support for DD will grow…and that this may be the all-important turning point in our country’s truly miserable recent history
I believe it is a principled stand on Davis’s part but it is also really smart politics. The Tories don’t know whether “liberty” or “law & order” resonates better with the swing voters so this initiative enables them to gauge the mood better and refine their policies accordingly. Davis stands to gain status if his bandwagon gathers momentum, which will benefit the Tories but not at the expense of undermining the leadership. Gordon Brown, meanwhile, can only squirm as Davis ensures his cynical manoeverings on this issue continue to dominate the front pages.
Brilliant.
Outstanding. And it shows the Cameron leadership clique up for the Chateau-bottled shit that they are.
But doesn’t this disturbance in the force not a bonus for NuLabour? I mean it reveals a certain level of disarray within the conservatives no?
Given that Davis emphasized his problem with the civil liberties violations with relatively few economic implications, and that it didn’t look like he was making much noise about skoolzanospitalz or taxes, he might actually take a few Labourites with him. If socialists in the UK are anything like socialists in the US, okay, most will be arrogant wastes of oxygen with violent tendencies. However, there are more than a few with not-so-fond memories of abuses of police power who would probably be just as happy with the 42-day concept being dumped even if it is a tory who came up with the idea. Just like there were probably a few Republicans here who opposed the power grab contained in the so-called “PATRIOT II” bill, for the same reasons they opposed such a power grab when Billy Jeff demanded new domestic spying powers in the OKC aftermath.
Cameron is young and vibrant. He’s basically a UK Bill Clinton. And he’s still losing people. Gordon Brown is not young, not vibrant, not charismatic, and appears about as fun to be around as an unsuccessful insurance salesman. How many people will really hitch their wagons to Brown’s horse?
From here, David Davis striking out on his own looks like a big deal.
David Davis on the outside of the tent pissing in!
Formidable.
Things suddenly got very interesting
I do wonder if this was a case of Cameron not trying hard enough to win the vote and Davis flicking the consequential shit for it.
Cameron was apparently open to the popular opinion of going with 42 days and his close colleague Michael Gove had doubts about opposition to it… Cameron of course, wouldn’t have wanted to lose Davis over a a vote like this, but at the same time wouldn’t necessarily have wanted to win it and be tagged as being “soft on terrorism”. So, perhaps easier just to half-heartedly whip up an opposition to the vote and then lose it. Did Davis think/ know that Cameron could have won it if he’d made a ‘proper’ go of it?
Anyhoo, best of luck to him. He’s never been my favourite, but he’s quite possibly just gone up in my estimations today.
I don’t care if this is a party political act to provoke Gordon Brown or if it is because Cameron and Davis have fallen out.
What Davis has done is put liberty firmly on the agenda, and people will now have to show their hand as a supporter or opponent of freedom.
To echo what Perry has often said, I want to know who my enemies are. This is going to flush a lot of them out.
I was going to write more, but I can’t do better than Alcoholiday.
We’ll see who our enemies are, and our allies too.
You say that is if it was a bad thing!
Suddenly, things are getting interesting again. The resignation of David Davis is certainly brave; I do hope that it turns out to be more substantial than just ‘brave’.
The parliamentary speech yesterday by Diane Abbott, or at least the bit of it I saw on BBC TV news, left no doubt in my mind that she was both sincere in her view and seriously pissed off with her own party leadership. [Note: just as Guy posted a bit later on Samizdata, though I think he was unnecessarily unkind to David Davis by labelling his action as a “melodramatic flourish”.]
It should surely be a delight to those of a classical liberal (moderate libertarian) slant, that there might well be something in the air.
I am reminded of those measures of political opinion that go beyond the simple left/right division, by adding a second axes with authoritarian/libertarian. Maybe that latter measure is coming to the fore, for those on both wings of the left/right divide. Personally, having noticed after all these years, that I agree with no one on everything, I can side with David Davis, Diane Abbott, most on Samizdata, and many others: that the most important issue facing us currently is personal freedom and liberty against the oppression of statist, centrist, authoritarianism.
Having read today’s 3 consecutive posts on Samizdata on this topic, I feel compelled to reveal that ‘I have a dream’.
What if some other MP resigned their seat, as has David Davis? What if some group of MPs committed to one resigning every week, for some painfully extensive period, perhaps even as long as the next two years?
For Tory MPs, it is difficult to imagine that those resigning would not be re-elected. But what about those of other parties? Could Diane Abbott resign and stand again as an independent. Could some Liberal Democrat MPs resign and stand again; would the Tories return the favour done to David Davis, and not stand in opposition?
How would the Brown government react to this eventuality? Might not these circumstances force, by some means, a general election sooner than in 2 year’s time?
Might not ‘winds of change’ start to blow sufficiently strongly, such that the House of Lords would feel obliged to delay its decision on some things: for example the Lisbon Treaty (a pretty statist, centrist, authoritarian thingy). For that happy event, a couple of resignations PDQ would be useful.
Just a dream, surely?
Best regards
Indeed I did. I think I was momentarily caught up in the political binary trap.
Completely agree that the authoritarian / libertarian divide is the most important one. I also share the cynicism about whether the Tories truly are on the right side of the divide: they ought to be. So I applaud Davis’s move. But if the Tories do wobble over civil liberties, we really are stuffed because there’ll be no choice at the next election on this question. It’ll simply be a question of finding a free country to go and live in, won’t it?
I don’t know very much about British politics, I only watch Prime Ministers questions on C-SPAN and try to follow along here. What does the “Daily Mail” wing of the Tory party stand for?
Hangin’ ‘n’ floggin’ matt.
Davis has been a solid civil libertarian of late, good form!
In the light of ConservativeHome (the voice of the grassroots so its claimed) coming out in favour of 42 days; this move by DD is even more poignant.
It will be interesting to see how this develops. Well done DD.
Quote: “David Davis.. a very different animal from Cameron…who I confidently predict will not repeal most of the measures this present government has passed.”
I hope that this is a move by Davis to lock the next government – whoever is PM – into dismantling the Blair / Brown police-state-by-stealth
“What Davis has done is put liberty firmly on the agenda, and people will now have to show their hand as a supporter or opponent of freedom.”
Thanks to Harry’s Place, here are some other examples of the fundamental British freedoms that matter to Davis.
* He opposed pretty much every attempt to ensure that gay people had equal rights.
* He wants to curtail abortion rights.
* He strongly supports fox hunting.
I stand by my previous comment. This action will shine a light on the true views of many who have been disingenuous before.
I am not naive enough to think that Davis would be anything other than inconsistent throughout his time as an MP.
I have not bothered to look into his stance on the three issues you have mentioned, however it is perfectly possible and consistent for him
to oppose these state mandated ‘rights’ whilst still being a defender of liberty.
David Davis believed (I think correctly) that people would soon forget about the 42 days detention without charge (let alone trial – remember the old principle in Scots law). That after the vote in the House of Commons the whole thing would “go down the memory hole” making a House of Lords rejection and a override by the government (using the Parliament Act) a nonstory.
The pressure around the House of Commons vote had to be kept up (in the minds of the public) regardless of what it did to him – and the Cameron crowd are already hinting to their friends in the Daily Telegraph that David Davis will not get his top job back even if he wins by a landslide (no surprise for Perry there).
Mr Davis has generally had good record over the years.
But I accept that he was wrong over not going into revolt against the European Union treaty under Mr Major.
The deal was that as Europe Minister he could fight the growth of power of the E.U. from inside – and he really did try (and earned the name “Mr No”), but he learned that you can not really fight some things from inside the system.
Something he is acting on now.
David Davis believed (I think correctly) that people would soon forget about the 42 days detention without charge (let alone trial – remember the old principle in Scots law). That after the vote in the House of Commons the whole thing would “go down the memory hole” making a House of Lords rejection and a override by the government (using the Parliament Act) a nonstory.
The pressure around the House of Commons vote had to be kept up (in the minds of the public) regardless of what it did to him – and the Cameron crowd are already hinting to their friends in the Daily Telegraph that David Davis will not get his top job back even if he wins by a landslide (no surprise for Perry there).
Mr Davis has generally had good record over the years.
But I accept that he was wrong over not going into revolt against the European Union treaty under Mr Major.
The deal was that as Europe Minister he could fight the growth of power of the E.U. from inside – and he really did try (and earned the name “Mr No”), but he learned that you can not really fight some things from inside the system.
Something he is acting on now.
I think Davis has done a brilliant job. Just look at Nick Robinsons blog. Absolutely jam packed with commenters tearing him apart and claiming they are libertarian.
Surely good for libertarianism.
If I were Cameron, I’d be feeling out the Medway Conservative Association preparatory to letting Bob Marshall-Andrews know quietly that if he wants to do the same thing no official Conservative candidate would come forward.
That takes the initiative, shows Labour as the divided party on this issue, and further squeezes the LibDems, who (even though Nick Clegg’s heart is definitely in the right place) are killing themselves strategically by allowing DD to be the champion of civil liberties.
Agreed Guy.