Considering how many health-scare news items there are these days, it makes me want to smile in a wry way when I also read about the supposed problems caused by an ageing, greying, population. The first and obvious question is: if we are all at such risk from obesity, drugs, booze, stress, pollution or the angst of watching Jonathan Ross, why are we living so much longer than our parents or grandparents? If this is what happens when the sky is supposedly always about to fall in, then what must a healthy population be like? And yet there is something in the human psyche, or our culture, that rebels against the happy prospect of a longer life. We are told, or at least have until recently accepted, that three-score years and ten is Man’s rightful due (perhaps a tad longer for women); it is almost a hangover from religion to believe that it is impious, even blasphemous, to want to live for much longer. Andrew O’Hagan, writing in the Daily Telegraph today in a moan about how the elderly are treated in Britain – a valid subject – makes this point:
Growing old is now considered more of an option than an inevitability, something to beat rather than be resigned to, something that is thought to take away from one’s individuality rather than deepen it.
I don’t really know how death, or its inevitability, adds to one’s individuality. I think I know what O’Hagan is trying to say: We are unique, precisely because we are mortal. We cannot be replaced, or copied.
The trouble, though, is that I don’t see how one’s uniqueness is somehow reduced by living for 200 years rather than say, 100, or 50, or 30. Were the ancient Romans – average lifespan about 35 – more individualistic and unique than a 21st Century Brit? How on earth can one measure this? Also, the desire to keep the Grim Reaper at bay surely attests to a love of life, not a denial of its value; if one believed in a craven acceptance of the inevitable, then why do we have doctors and hospitals?. I value my life rather a lot and am in no hurry to see my hair go all grey, my face resemble tree bark, and my limbs to seize up. Sorry, Mr O’Hagan, but I’d rather not suffer that fate any time soon. I go to the gym and try to keep fit despite my enjoyment of red wine. I have not signed up for cryonic suspension or anything like that but I keep an eye on life extension research and have been greatly impressed by the work of people such as Aubrey de Grey, among others. (Don’t be put off by the immense beard, he’s not a nutter). I lost a good friend and intellectual mentor, Chris Tame, nearly two years ago to the horror of bone cancer – he was in his mid-50s – and I am pretty sure this most unique of people could and should have been around for many more decades among us. (I particularly miss his outrageous jokes).
I remain to be convinced of the idea that to value one’s life, it must be short, or that we should resign ourselves to it meekly. Meekness did not build the space rocket, the Aston Martin DB9 or even produce modern dental surgery.
Update: Glenn Reynolds has interesting thoughts on this subject. He’s been writing on this for some time. Ronald Bailey, whom I met over a year ago during a book tour of London, is also well worth reading on this and related topics. I read this Peter Hamilton novel which touches on rejuvination; it is not one of his best tales, unfortunately (the Amazon.co.uk book reviews are not very flattering).
“Growing old is now considered more of an option than an inevitability, something to beat rather than be resigned to, something that is thought to take away from one’s individuality rather than deepen it.”
Surely O’Hagan is talking about growing old and not about dying? In other words, he’s regretting people’s rejection of the gravitas conferred by age and their undignified attempts to remain forever young.
I’ll be 40 this year and I already feel suffocated by youth culture, so what on earth must it be like for people twice my age?
The poor chap. I’m 45 and I find I relate just as easily to the 25 yr old recent graduates I’m surrounded with at work as I do to the friends I’ve known for 20 or 25 years.
You can’t avoid become old, but I think you can put off becoming elderly. I see increasing numbers of both men and women who are 60 now who physically look and act like people in their 40’s did when I was a kid.
Well, exactly Bruce.
My wife (28) had a terrible moment of aging angst a couple of years back when she realised that she had no idea who was #1 in the music charts. It was a short-lived angst because I told her that not only did I have no idea but that I’m pretty sure it was the case for a great many teenagers too.
I remember being told as a kid that my infatuation with computer games (Speccy, 2 Amigas, 3 PCs, 32″ telly specifically chosen for it’s gaming potential – don’t tell the missus – later I’m still playing and pondering a new PC) would be a passing fad. The funny thing is over the years the average age of gamers has crept up and I remain perpetually a couple of years junior of that!
The idea that you reach a certain age and start wearing tweed is three stops from Dagenham. If I could be arsed, I’d repost this in 1337.
Also .. I find it goes the other direction as well.
The yoof of today (or at least the ones I associate with) can quote Python and Blackadder and HitchHiker’s Guide and so forth just as well as I can, despite it all being well before they were born. Not to mention appreciating 60’s and 70’s music.
The Goons are a bit of a mystery to them though, until I introduce them.
I think the generation gap, much feared in the 50’s and 60’s, has all but disappeared.
When I tell people I think improved technology will mean I have a fair chance of living, well, pretty much as long as I like, I’m amazed at how infrequently they see this as a good thing.
Complaints are often that the world will become overpopulated, as if not only is there a fixed quantity of wealth but that nothing *else* would change along with increased longevity. I call it the BBC school of economics.
Mrs MarkE works in the “care” industry so her perspective is distorted; she only sees those who have had to surrender their independance because of frail mental or physical health. From the comments she makes I would be very reluctant to chase a great age for its own sake. The thought of extending active and independant life on the other hand does appeal .
There is nothing I would give up for an extra ten years after 85, but if I could squeeze those years in between 30 and 50 odd, I would make far more effort. That is why I try to keep fit (ish) and eat a healthy (ish) diet. Perhaps I’ll remain middle aged (ish) a bit longer rather than entering old age.
Canker: growing old is dying, biologically speaking.
Who was it who said: “Death is Nature’s way of telling you to slow down.” ?
permanent, I do not know but it was a good one!! I like this one by Woody Allen: “They say people try to achieve immortality by their work; I try to achieve it by not dying”.
This is maybe the place to mention the actor Roy Scheider who died this week.
In the great 1979 movie “All that Jazz” he tells about a certain lady proffesor who wrote a book on the process of dying “whithout the benefit of personal experience”.
The movie goes, to a certain extent, exactly through this process, though it is not about old age.
Perer Hamilton’s duology (?) of “Pandora’s Star” and “Judas Unbound” deal very effectively with wide-spread rejuvenation technologies and some of the effects they might have on society. It’s context as opposed to a main theme of the story, but it’s well done. Memory/personality storage also figure into it, which makes it even more interesting.
@Alisa
Biologically speaking is the least of my worries.
To be more precise, eternal vapidity strikes me as just as undesirable as dementia and incontinence (and no, I’m not accusing any of the mentally-agile Samizdata commentariat of vapidity).
I stumbled across a weird website a few months ago, dedicated to people who sought relatively extreme longevity through a combination of very low calorific intake and very little exercise. It was a very sad experience. The contributors seemed uniformly humourless and obsessed with numerical age rather than richness of experience.
By all means go for longevity, but don’t forget that you’d better fill the time with something you enjoy.
David
I’m not sure I like Hamilton’s type of ‘immortality’ where you age and then go into a tank and come out twenty, then age again. I’d rather go for the nannites that keep one forever young.
The more interesting background part of the novels for me was travelling from planet to planet by train. Cool.
As for aging. It sucks. Having watched both my parents go from vigorous, healthy individuals to broken wrecks over a period of a few years, then to find the beginnings of the same thing happening to myself, is a sobering experience.
I doubt very much that true anti-aging treatment will happen in my lifetime but I’m pretty sure that some people alive today will live to be a healthy 200 years old, and if they live that long then the pace of progress will be such that, barring catastrophic brain damage, they will be effectively immortal.
Which sucks even more, since the ungrateful young whippersnappers will take it as their due and give no thought whatsoever to those who went before them and paved the way for their good fortune.
Canker: sure. I was just making a remark in the context of you comment.
Of course, what would you expect of people who barely eat and barely move?
As one’s health and overall physical abilities deteriorate, it inevitably becomes more and more difficult doing most things you enjoy. It is all about biology, after all. Of course, our mental state has great influence on our physical condition, but there is a limit to that influence as well.
My 17 year old son has great affection for Frank Sinatra. I find that odd since Old Blue Eyes was before my time.
I discourage him from playing it for his girlfriend. Frank already has been responsible for getting enough young men in trouble.
Personally, I think the belief that growing old is option is the sort of mental gymnastics that the 40ish indulge in. It is a rationalization that hits about the time one realizes that the body now to be kept up instead of abused.
It worked like that for me.
Misspent Youth is in the same universe as Pandora’s Star and Judas Unchained, and the Dreaming Void et sequence for that matter.
I too disliked Misspent Youth, but probably for reasons that Hamilton wanted me to, since I found the main character deplorable.
Thinking back on it, an awful lot of it comes off as an excuse for Hamilton to wrote porn.
One has to wonder if the whole “traitor’s pension” thing could come to pass though.
“has” – the body now has… (sigh)
“The first and obvious question is: if we are all at such risk from obesity, drugs, booze, stress, pollution or the angst of watching Jonathan Ross, why are we living so much longer than our parents or grandparents?”
I wonder about that little word ‘we’… I think I’m correct in believing most of the samizdatistas (and perhaps also commentariat) are at least in their 30s if not older. Present and future (I hope) generations of children are growing up into an age of hitherto unseen ease of global communication and travel. Might such things as internet use and frequent long distance travel have effects on ageing (and health more generally) that are as yet undetectable?
I realise earlier ludites from earlier decades might have said such things before in reference to television, motorways and so on, and I also realise the answer has nearly always been technology (and medical technology in particular)…but is there not something new about just how abstract our societies are becoming?
Political ‘solutions’ are of course off the table.
Extrapolation from such things is notoriously hard to do; you are quite right that previous “luddites” fretted about TV, cars, and the rest; the current crop of doomsters are fretting about the Web, other forms of travel, etc. There is a problem, albeit not as large as some claim, about fat kids, or teenage drinking, but from what I can tell from the reports, the general trend is one way. And in fact we are so bombarded with health messages these days that our generation looks pretty fit, at least based on the folk I see in London (I am 41, weigh just over 80kg and am just over 6ft tall).
There is an issue of how, in an age where many people work in sedentary jobs, in offices hunched in front of a computer, they get enough exercise; exercise is important not just for keeping trim, but also a good way to get rid of stress, a major cause of illness.
Get out there and go for a long walk!
Make sure you buy your permit at the ranger station first. Leave your proposed route with them. Maps and compass and terrain-association skills are unreliable: bring your GPS and cellphone. Don’t forget your avalanche beacon. And it’s entirely too damn risky to take the kids with you.
The Oregon state legislature is currently considering a bill requiring that everybody who goes above 10000′ on Mount Hood carry an electronic locator beacon in case they get lost. Ten thousand feet, hell! My favorite bar is above ten thousand feet!
Not to be outdone, Massachusetts is pondering requiring children to wear helments, while sledding. Yes, sledding.
It’s a wonder any of us survived childhood.
One thing that interests me about this issue is that, although we speak of such things as ‘maturity’ in distinction to age per se, we take the definition and measurement of age for granted. Granted, the concept of age – measured in years, months and days etc – is useful for legislative reasons. When you’re 18 years old you can drive. And drink. Etc… Granted also, any concept of ‘maturity’ is likely to be unmeasurable psycho-babble.
Yet I wonder whether the generally unquestioned concept of age owes anything to the State as just another way of counting and measuring the sheeple… just a random thought.
Life expectancy, not lifespan.
For calorie restriction with exercise, fun, drinking, an occasional cigar and a generally intelligent outlook on life try Art de Vany
http://www.artdevany.com
The decay of one’s body and mind (growing old – ageing) is not something to be happy about.
Certainly it is not the number of years one has lived but the amount of decay that matters (a person of 100 may be in better mental shape than an another person of 40), but this exactly why one should fight the decay as much as one can.
In short O’Hagan is being an arse – as allways.
!
Depressing. The nanny-state knows no borders.
Acomplia (rimonabant) is an anti-obesity drug. It was approved for marketing in the European Union in June 2006. Rimonabant is not yet approved for use in the United States, where it is known as Zimulti. http://www.acompliaonline.com
Generic Acomplia is an Anti Obesity Drug that is Best Weight loss product in UK and Europe. http://www.genericacomplia.us
Breast enlargement products that gives you fuller, firmer, larger, rounder perfect cup size breast in few weeks which increase the beauty of your body and gives you full confidence! http://www.big-breast-enlargement.com
Nice page but no so clear I like to read more about this idea.
Great information very useful for me and the Health • Philosophical
is very important and I like to know more about this topic and I need to know more about [url=http://www.internetpharmacybuy.com/]Internet Pharmacy[/url] because this information is very useful.
Great information very useful for me and the Health • Philosophical
is very important and I always read about heatlh