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What would Samuel L. Jackson say? He might well say, man, this is some repugnant shit:
Thousands of council staff are being trained to police the smoking ban in bars, restaurants and shops in England.
Ministers have given councils £29.5m to pay for staff, who will be able to give on-the-spot £50 fines to individuals and take court action against premises.
They will have the power to enter premises undercover, allowing them to sit among drinkers, and will even be able to photograph and film people.
If only Mr. Jackson were here to pop a few caps in a few asses.
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So does this mean that, like most New Labour laws passed to date, that this is NOT a law designed to promote public health and safety but a law designed principally to generate more revenue from smoking-related fines and penalties? I wonder how soon it will be before corrupt local authorities in the UK (and there are a few of them now) work out that a ‘special licence’ can be arranged for any pub or club that is prepared to make a sizeable donation …
In the referenced article we have:
And we have:
This is just for one (silly little) law. Now, how many policemen are there in the whole of the UK?
Surely on this, the Blair/Brown government has truly lost it. Is it not time for the men in white coats?
Best regards
How many establishments will be exempt for cultural reasons? There are not a few establishments where the inspectors will be lucky to get out of with their lives,let alone cameras. Try it in the “Brass Handles” chucky.
We’ve been endlessly told how popular the anti smoking laws are. We were treated to the false debate that on the one hand the government were proposing some form of ban and on the other lots of people were saying they weren’t going far enough. We were told the “public” were very much in favor of a total ban.
So why would there be a need for these measures?
This could be a good thing if the smoke agents are also being secretly cross-trained to monitor terrorist suspects.
You can light a joint almost anywhere in the city of Santa Fe and never be bothered, but light a cigarette and you will be attacked by an angry mob and held until the police show up. I actually approve of the one part, and don’t smoke cigarettes so I don’t really care about the other, but on reflection it does seem strangely hypocritical.
Can anyone see any reasons for this other than:
a) a fundraising initiative.
b) foundations for a secret police infrastructure.
Both appear suspect in my view.
I am finding it hard to say anymore on this…the entire concept leaves me almost speachless/fingertied.
A possible solution would be simply to burn large amounts of tobacco in a space-heater and blow the smoke into the bar.
Nobody would be smoking, yet everybody would be smoking.
***How many establishments will be exempt for cultural reasons? There are not a few establishments where the inspectors will be lucky to get out of with their lives,let alone cameras. Try it in the “Brass Handles” chucky.***
This sort of strikes at a notion I’ve had for some time that laws like this (and the “executive branch” measures instituted to enforce it) typically are enforced on those who aren’t erring all that much, and those that generally don’t give a fuck are pretty much let off as it would be too much of a hassle to go after. So it comes down to that those who try and be law abiding are pushed around endlessly, and those who flat out don’t care and aren’t going to pay the fines don’t have a whole lot done to them. It’s like drinky-drivey laws in the US. Get caught once and regret it, you go through all sorts of pain and various exercises, and those who don’t care are caught a dozen times, never have pissed in a cup or been to a re-education class, and yet they’re still on the road. Sometimes it seems like the bureaucracy exists to push people around who are dumb and willing enough to allow themselves to pushed around. And the pusher is your average bully with a license.
Statism gone mad in Venezuala today also. Hugo will nationalise anyone who breaks his price controls:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6364515.stm
The dictator-in-waiting also wants to force companies to give their employees time off so they can “study socialism”.
It is not just Britain or North America. The French government is employing more special anti smoking inspectors than there are soldiers in the French army.
And I can still remember people saying “the one good thing about Europe is that it is not P.C.”.
The same thing happened in Scotland. The bottom inspectors have found themselves with very little to do, as it turns out.
People actually seem to like it. When I start spouting off about the illiberality of it all and the freedom of people to choose what they do to themselves, I never – never – find anyone agreeing with me. If I had a pound for every time I’ve heard, “Well, it’s helping me give up…”, I’d probably have enough to pay all the fines imposed so far (it’s not that many). Folk seem to be so bloody spineless they want to be forced not to do things they don’t want to do.
Sometimes I despair.
wings,
Enough of Chavez already! We’ve got his understudies in Whitehall! I can see the “fag-patrol” getting lynched in some of the boozers round here. If they try any of that nonsense in The Wheatsheaf I can see it ending with a Whicker Man. 1-2-3, Edward Woodward, “Dear God! No!“.
I am not advocating burning anyone to death accompanied with folk dancing. Surely that would count as being both cruel and unusual.
This sinister army of Fag Drags is so very New Labour isn’t it!
I travel a lot. The experience I find in countries that smoke even more than us, is that such bans are self enforceing.
In Italy go into a bar and there’s no-one there. They are all out on the terrace smoking and drinking. Well they have the weather most of the year (roll on Global warming).
Same in Ireland, Scotland, USA, germany etc etc. Only in paranoid NuLabland does it take £30 million and an army of prod nosed bastards to enforce a problem that hasn’t occured yet!
6 months down the line, and these people will be redundant, because we will have taken to this ludicrous law in the same way we always do.
Quietly and in a queue.
The prod nosed bastards will not be made redundant however. Oh No!
What nefarious task will the Govt be putting them to next?
The answer to what to do about this, is streight forward. First findout who they are. Second publicly lable them as informers. Third encourage people not to talk to, sell to, or in any way acknowlage their existance.
What will happen if anti cigarette policies start to work? I mean, if everyone actually did stop smoking, these anti smoking fines wouldn’t cover the loss of cigarette tax revenue. Both would converge to zero. I don’t think the government could handle the revenue loss. Clearly what needs to be done is combine the fines with an aggressive “get the youth to start smoking” drive.
I would be hypothesizing a sudden surge of camera/phone dropped in pint accidents in the case of suspected secret policeman.
Why all the long faces? This is an ideal business opportunity! Here is where libertarians can put their principles into practice, and make some righteous money! Just start up some ‘breathe-easy’ bars, and you’d be rolling in cash! Prohibition was the foundation of many a rich american family, and it could work in Britain just as well!!!
Alcohol sales are down in all the places a smoking ban is in place.
Off Licence sales are up.
What do you think is going on Nicholas?
Party back at my place is what’s going on,
and there’s bugger all the Govt can do about it.
Yet.
Keep posting Sam 🙂
All you need to do now is put in some more seats, a bar, and LOTS of ventilation, and hire a gang to make your competitors ‘see reason’ on you keeping a local monopole. And be sure to put up sign ‘NO SECRET POLICE ALLOWED’ If that doesn’t work, I don’t know what will! Of course, it won’t be all fun and profit- bribes will need to be paid, but it will sure beat regular work!
Forgive me, New Labor, for I have sinned.
I used to smoke. Then I quit. I used the patch and suffered for a few months, but I didn’t use any government programs. And I now really don’t like the smell. And so, I avoided smoking restaurants and bars on my own without a smoking ban being necessary and without the Department of Public Health and Environment paying for the patches.
Obviously, I did something wrong. Mea culpa.
Brad: You’re not wrong. As usual, Ayn Rand put it better than I could – “Do you think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power the government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”
Steph: Good idea. Post their pictures on a website along with the area in which they prowl. Of course, we’d be accused of violating their human rights. But they are photographing us and, IIRC, there’s a legal principle of “What’s sauce for the goose…” which could be argued.
Re: “The prod nosed bastards will not be made redundant however. Oh No!
What nefarious task will the Govt be putting them to next?”
Probably be retained in time to become part of the council tax police and be empowered to kick in our front doors to check we have not built a new garden shed, or put in a garden pond to make our homes slightly more pleasant to live in.
All so they can bung up the Council Tax and reduce services again.
I used to smoke 30 a day, then my lungs got irritated so I stopped completely.
But I still love the smell, and I like smoky women when they do it ‘right’.
I am not advocating burning anyone to death accompanied with folk dancing. Surely that would count as being both cruel and unusual.
Come on Nick this is just silly, you know you would need a special license for the folk dancing. Just stick to the free and easy to do burning (but don’t use highly taxed oetrol maybe buy red diesal from your local farmer)
My clever wife suggests the smokersnoopers should wear armbands showing broken cigarettes … maybe in the shape of a swastika?
“breathe easy”?
More like “Wheeze Easy”! 😉
US had cigar bars where people went and pony’d up for the fine IIRC. Maybe that has been stamped on. Sure made the US fall back in love with overt cigar chomping!
Another reason for this is to create jobs for the vast armies of otherwise unemployable folk with Mickey Mouse degrees from out splendid universities and colleges. No doubt the Guardian will be carrying reams of lucrative ads for these jobs. How about this for a job ad:
“Wanted: nosy, bossy anal-retentive people with a desire to enforce puritanical measures in pubs and restaurants. Must possess no sense of humour, or indeed sense. Open to people of all races, sexes, heights, weights, religions. Must have at least 5 years experience of working in some pointless public sector job. Pay from 100,000 per year plus car and 6 weeks holiday.”
Seriously, this demonstrates where most of Gordon Brown’s massive increases in public spending are going. The government now takes about 46% of GDP, up from 38% in 1997 when Labour got in. More than 800,000 new public sector jobs have been created over that time, according to ONS data. You work out the maths.
The Dob Squad. Ugh.
JJM
laws like this…typically are enforced on those who aren’t erring all that much
I think that the converse is also true. In a conversation about ID cards that I had recently a friend said something like ‘but people should be monitored in case they break the law’. This is a guy who regularly snorts cocaine and drives above the speed limit and who no doubt breaks many other trivial laws. And this guy isn’t alone.
I read it was over a million a while back, and I’d bet the children the figure hasn’t gone down since then! And that is net of all the jobs moved off balance sheet to EDS, Capita, PFI “partners” etc. I wouldn’t be shocked to discover the gross increase in the government payroll is closer to 2 million!
That’s one way to disguise the true level of unemployment caused by “Prudence” Brown, and ramp the payroll vote at the same time.
Can I apply for the position of slaphead libertarian outreach officer for Oxfordshire? I’d do it for as little as £100k plus pension and car allowance (I’d probably be expected to use public transport, but there is none in much of Oxon).
I could have sworn I heard John Reid, on one of the political programs on tv last Sunday, refer to the UK as a ‘libertarian democracy’.
And the real corker? The smoking ban doesn’t apply to royal palaces, including, erm, Westminster Palace.
Anyone know how many bars there are in Westminster Palace? I seem to recall that it’s seven, though I may be mistaken on that.
The Strangers’ Bar, I believe, has voluntarily banned smoking, as has the tea room. But the rest?
The depressing thing is that these informers will be totaly unneeded. Everyone will quickly comply with the law. I was shocked by how smoothly it went when I was living in Ireland. Now I’ve moved to Arizona and they’ve gone and enacted a ban here. You can’t escape the bastards anywhere!
I’ve had a couple of opportunities to smoke in smokeasies in New York, both times late at night with pint glasses with a bit of water in the bottom used for ash trays. It’s not quite the same, and the idea of opening a true smokeasy – ash trays and all! – does sound much closer to a truly enjoyable experience.
The solution is very simple. When collared by one of these disgusting scum, demand to see its Identification. Take a note of all personal details.
The next time you are apprehended, give the personal details of the first.
Repeat as necessary.
Thanks Dr Syn,
You just reminded me that the ban doesn’t include prisons either.
Well prisoners have already successfully sued under The Human Rights Act
for the “Forced” withdrawal of their right to take Crack and Heroin whilst in prison, erm despite it being illegal and that’s what they are in there for in the first place!
Sheesh!!
So if you tried to ban the fags in Slade, the Govt would not be looking at New Prison building schemes,
But Prison “Rebuilding” schemes, period.
Yes, and tobacco sales are up. “The other rob”‘s Rand quote occurred to me, too.
Will do. I’m not a big fan of web forums; I prefer good old Usenet (“Sam Duncan” is a pseudonym, by the way, so don’t bother searching Google Groups), but Samizdata’s my first stop after I fire up the computer every day.
Here in small town Michigan the local police are writing tickets to teens smoking outside of the local high school.
Next door to the school is the local hospital where smoking was outlawed on all property about a year ago.
Last week the “wind chill” temperature was minus 27 degrees fahrenheit. Because of fears of frostbite for kids waiting for the bus, students got 3 days off. But the patients and nurses next door did not. They were out there at the curb smoking away in their cheery-colored uniforms.
There’s a bit in one of Bill Hicks skits about smoking
where he says
Isn’t great! you non smokers
to see a smoker pass out in the New York winter
because he doesn’t realise when he’s done exhaling!
Jonathan,
You forget that they MUST possess an innate sense of smell – the ability to detect a smoker furtively puffing on a Romeo y Julieta in the furthest cubicle in the restrooms would, I think, be a must. Incidentally what happens to specialised cigar clubs such as Boisdales – do they have special shocktroops to ramraid their way into the club and tell everyone “face down on the floor and NOBODY put their cigar out”?
John_R
I just love the idea of a London Smoking Wardens (motto: “For Your Health And Protection”) armband with 4 broken cigarettes arranged in a swastika array. Perhaps we can go the whole hog and have a passing out ceremony for West African migrant Smoking Wardens being presented with their ceremonial Penalty Charge Notice dispenser and armband by Patricia Hewitt?
And just think what odd hours they will have to keep. I suppose it will be divided up – garages in the morning, offices in the afternoon, pubs in the evening. Long days. Or split shifts. Not my idea of lazy, do nothing public sector work, though we can hope they are lazy do-nothings….
Neil, they will probably work 2 hour shifts, spend 4 hours filling out forms, and be paid for 8 hrs.
They will spend their half of their 6 weeks vacation campaigning for their elected bosses to be reelected.
Big brother and big sister will be out there raking in the cash from the ash. I am glad to be going to New Hampshire next month to live free and die 3,000 miles away from this nonsense! No way will I return to live in old blighty, it really is beginning to suffer from administrative/more than me bleeding jobs wurff blight.
Fascism is not just alive an well and soon to be made into a nice little earner for the state, this is an inexorable slide into a wasteland of gestapo petty police statism.
A dads army of secret policemen from the council. What ever next? One hopes that they are given wardrobe allowances so that you can spot the boots, NHS glasses, and leather coats of the commissariat. Daytime jobs in the canteens and by night snuffing out the fags. What nice clean ash free fun!
As this nonsense moves on to more serious matters, the repulsion factor will increase. Give the jobs wurffs secret police powers and then what?