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Nukes for the Glorious Leader I was going try and summon up the enthusiasm to write something about the North Korean nuclear test, but how could I improve upon this?
If I had the chance to put a few questions to the Idiotarians of the world, they would be… if the most repressive regime in the world having nuclear weapons does not bother you, what does? 1
Secondly, if one month ago the US had taken military action to demolish the nuclear research facilities of the North Korean state, you would have accepted (a) that preventing people like the leader of North Korea from getting nukes was a reasonable justification to use force (b) that North Korea even had a nuclear weapons programme?
Just curious. 
1 = and of course the answer is CAPITALISM… and Jews… and BushMcHitler. What is a huge open air prison camp like North Korea compared to that?
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Oh, I dunno. China might actually be on board for sanctions this time ’round. We’ll have to wait and see, but one can at least hope that they’re miffed enough with the Kim regime they wouldn’t mind imposing sanctions on the calculated risk that they would result in a coup, thus toppling Kim an installing a more Beijing-compliant regime.
As for what we should do about it – openly encouraging Japan to ditch Article 9 and build up a missile program would seem to be a good idea. It counts as a “consequence” (from Kim’s point of view), and it’s also clear that Japan is more in the crosshairs than anyone else, I think.
But the blast probably wasn’t nuclear anyway.
Brian,
Maybe, but we should have done something. This has been like watching a train-wreck in slow motion. There is now nothing to stop any Tom, Dick or Ahmandinijad from developing nukes because they know that the worst they can expect is “grave concern” from the UN and the end result will probably be enhanced prestige from the non-aligned nations for standing up to “Imperialism”.
The NorKs should have been Osirak-ed years ago. The Chinese (and others, but mainly the Chinese) would have blustered for a while, but not for too long because deep down they don’t want the DPRK to have nukes any more than anyone else.
All it would have taken is the political will to be unpopular for a while. Alas that was sadly lacking. What can we do now. Well, I think you may be right. There probably is nothing much to be gained from shutting the stable door when the horse is rapidly dissappearing over the horizon.
The only solution I can think of (and it’s a long shot) is to persuade the Chinese that cutting off aid and allowing the collapse of the DPRK is not necessarily such a bad thing and that RoK would (with a great deal of help from the USA, Japan and allies handle the refugees and the aftermath). Of course the Chinese would not like the idea of the US sphere of influence increasing in the form of a reunited Korea but perhaps they might bite at a deal by which Korea ends up being essentially neutral.
The important focus is how successful a nuclear North Korea may be in trying to weaken US military support for South Korea.
If North Korea is successful in doing this, then China may attempt to impose economic constraints on South Korea (such as limiting investment in Siberia) in return for offering security guarantees against the North.
It may be that the Chinese are the real movers behind this event.
I tried a comment about this revolting slave plantation earlier, but the bugs ate it. It doesn’t matter—everyone here knows how despicable this corrupt, totalitarian regime is, and how the people of NK are suffering.
Speaking of bugs, I commented on a post by Den Beste over at ChicagoBoyz about the unreality of the reality community, not thinking it was any big deal, just for fun. Instapundit linked to the post, and now the site is swarming with blogroaches, vilifying and insulting anyone who dares to question the leftist mindset.
As much as I have studied them for decades, it still amazes me that the leftist mentality continues to believe it has a lock on all truth, and immediately attacks anyone who questions their nonsensical claims.
There was another site, didn’t note the name, which was collecting congratulatory posts by various disciples of the “Lion of Socialism” around the world.
In the dictionary, under “invicible ignorance”, there are photos of some of the same people. Sigh.
About the only thing that would make any difference in the sick world of Sick Ill Kim, or Ahmadinejad, or any other nuke kook, might be to instate a public policy, making it clear that if any stray nukes go off anywhere in the world, MAD would be reinstated for all ( it would have to be all) rogue nations immediately with the requisite number of nukes or neutron (environmentally safe) bombs delivered on all of them within minutes of any detonation, wherever and for what ever reason. This should include tests, mistakes, and out of control terrorist activities.
Mass fear is about the only thing that might cause a moment of reflection before pushing the nuke go button. One party, or six party, or an infinite number of party talks, even with colored balloons, won’t cut it with these loons. A severe down draw in the minds of the leaders of nuke rogues, and their terrorist chums, is about the only thing that might, and I say might, prevent them destroying some of our cities.
Very nasty stuff to contemplate is the sick world of Sick Ill Kim. As for the suicidal left in politics, they are incurably stupid, nothing will change them, they will just go on sucking up to Sick Ill Kimmie. Hayek was right, just wait for them to die off. Ironically, most of them live in the prime target cities anyway. Just like me, eh hem! I’m on my way to New Hampshire soon. Nuff said.
No surprise that Sir Max Hastings was busy, in today’s “Daily Mail”, blaming everything on George Bush.
The “Daily Mail” is a newspaper of the “right” and Sir Max always poses as a country gentleman (actually he is not the toff he pretends to be – but there we go).
I suppose it is a case of phony “British patriots” loving to attack the United States.
It is a matter of phony patriotism as Sir Max Hastings with all his protests against the supposed control of the United Kingdom by the United States has no problem with the European Union imposing the vast majority of regulations in the United Kingdom – just as the “Daily Mail” types in the 1930’s had no problem with the supporters of a “United Europe” then (the Nazis and their “British Union of Fascists”, or “Blackshirt”, supporters in this country).
A few years ago Sir Max was a supporter of Mr Blair – he loved the “third way” stuff. You know the drill “neither capitalism or socialism, at least not socialism of the Marxist type……” the European Union people still love this stuff, just as the original people who worked out how “Economic and Monetary Union” would be achieved, did.
Read the satire “Superstoe”. The US Pres with Russian approval would have had no trouble dealing with North Korea.
I think it’s bad. But I don’t think we can (or should) do anything about it.
If North Korea is successful in doing this, then China may attempt to impose economic constraints on South Korea (such as limiting investment in Siberia) in return for offering security guarantees against the North.
Eh? How will China prevent South Korea from investing in Siberia, assuming that they want to? Despite a few scare stories, Siberia will be administered from Moscow for a good while yet.
First qualification, I live and work in South Korea, but am not Korean. Second, I fully believe the DPRK to be amongst the most sinister, human rights-abusing, illiberal regimes the world has ever seen. I invariably support the foreign policy line of the GNP (conservative) party here, who stand for a strengthening of the US/ROK alliance and reciprocity in dealing with the DPRK.
However…
Those hawks amongst you, have you stopped for one moment to consider the fallout of a strike against the North? Firstly, it would certainly result in a counterstrike against Seoul and the industrial heartland around it. Hundreds of high-explosive artillery rounds would soon be pounding a combined population of 20 million. The 24000 odd US troops here would be cannon fodder, being afterall a tripwire force who at best could hold the Norths million plus army until (hopefully) a depleted US force could arrive a week (or weeks later). By that time, DPRK commandos would have reaked havoc around the place. Chemical and biological shells would rain down further afield, possibly on Japan. A crude nuclear device could even be wheeled down on, I dunno, an oxcart and let off, contaminating a vast swathe of the peninsula.
I’m not painting this picture out of self interest, the fact that my wife and unborn child are here with me too. I’d like for a moment, those predisposed to strikes to consider the economic fallout with the best part of the world’s 11th (depending on who you read) largest economy ruined, Japan’s severely shaken and not to mention the cost of dealing with massive refugee flows down the line that China and Russia would have to shoulder.
The US is in no fit state to carry out an attack. Even the meagre forces here are subject to drawdown to missions in the ME. The nearest carrier group lies a week away and even massive air bombardment won’t matter much against the deeply fortified DPRK defenders.
I’m all for confronting tyrants, but lets think this out. What can Kim do except continue to offer idle threats, which if carried out, will end in the exact opposite of that which he hopes to secure; reime survival.
Luckily for the almost 50 million of us here on the bottom half of the peninsula, not to mention those whose livelihoods are dependent on South Korean investment further afield, cooler and calmer heads should prevail. A blockade, sanctions and total isolation of the North is, for my mind, the best course of action. The alternative is unthinkable, even as a simple cost benefit analysis.
Aaronm, I do not think even the most feathered of hawks would suggest a US lead attack on North Korea tomorrow… if the US was going to attack the DPRK, they should do with at a time and place of the USA’s choosing with suitable forces in-theatre. The North Korea military is large, they are also essentially an army with 1960’s technology… they would provide a target rich environment.
However this could never be a US decision because attacking North Korea with any objective other than the destruction of the North Korean would be preposterous. The only way to prevent North Korea getting nuclear weapons is to make sure there is no long a North Korea, just a place called Korea.
The campaign of the party in office in the Republic of Korea (“South Korea”) in the last general election was nasty.
For example, stuff about how “the old should go up the mountain”. It meant how old attitudes should give way to a more cooperative policy with the Communist North – but it was a hint of the old practice of old people going up the mountain to die when they were no longer of use and there was a shortage of food.
People who live in the Republic of Korea would know about it better than I do, but there does seem to be a generation gap. The old know that the Americans were the good guys during the Korean war (they were there), but many of the young have been brought up (via education and the media) on stories of American atrocities (no army is perfect, but the vast majority of murders were by the Communist side) and how American is to blame for everything.
Facts exist and no amount of brainwashing by the “liberal” elite can change them – but the brainwashing can determine the way many people vote.
Aaronm hit the nail on the head. Kim seems in a good place, holding Seoul hostage and all. I don’t think there’s much in the way of military action that we could do that wouldn’t end up with several hundred thousand koreans dead and their economy wrecked for a generation. Clearly, this is not a favored outcome.
The blockade strategy, which I believe is gaining traction here in the US, may be a start — but it has a set of problems as well. (1) blockades are generally considered acts of war and (2) unless China agrees to close the railways, it might not do much anyway.
This is all terribly depressing.
On a lighter note…I think it was a damp squib. Sure….it was a big explosion — but not big enough. My thinking is that NoKo doesn’t have the technology to make a nuke with a yield that LOW. In my opinion, Kim poured a whole lot of ANFO into a deep hole and then KABLOOEY. (or something like that)
A local talk radio host aired his thoughts that Kim was trying to pull an “October surprise” — an event close enough to the impending American elections that may swing the votes one way or another. I don’t know if he’s right…but it’s an interesting line of thought.
Until only recently, I had always thought of counterfeiters as masked crooks with a basement printing press. However, with so many US dollars abroad in both circulation and reserves, some people here believe that counterfeiting US currency is actually being done by certain nation states — NoKo possibly being chief among them. Clever, no?
I’m not sure which makes me more ill (Ill, geddit??) the Dear Leader or the ridiculous posturing of Western professors desparate to portray North Korea as the underdog against the evil oppressive Hitler McBush and Uncle Sam. Such a character was the limpid handwringing David Wall on yesterday’s Today programme, suggesting that we had not done enough in acquiescence to North Korea to ensure that they did not carry out the nuclear test – a remark so crass as to make his counterpart, Sir Malcolm Rifkind actually appear statesmanlike (no mean feat).
Personally I find that the excellent Harry Hutton has the last word on Kim Jong Il,