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Fools and horses? When I grew up, “Buy low, Sell high” was a mantra you learned at your mothers knee. It was what any good proper American had ingrained into them. Somewhere along the line it seems to have become ‘suspicious activity’ to those in law enforcement. I am not alone in feeling that a couple Arab-American men in a truck full of cheap phones has much less to it than meets the law officer’s eye.
A terrorism expert interviewed on Fox News told them even a huge terrorist plot would only require a handful of phones. A thousand phones are likely to be exactly what the men (and their wives) say they are: a plot to make money. Making money is a good, patriotic American act.
I will require a hell of a lot more proof than I have heard so far to believe there is an enemy use for thousands of mobile phones. Maybe there is… but I am not even mildly convinced of it at the moment.
I can almost hear Del Boy laughing…
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Yup – when I read about it, it sounded to me like good old fashioned arbitrage. They’re probably taking the cellphones and selling them at rural flea-markets and other places where people either don’t know or don’t have easy access to cheap prepaid cellphones.
But I also don’t think it’s unwise to check up on this sort of thing; at the risk of getting into yet another one of those silly “if we do anything, The Terrorists Have Won” debates, I think the clerk who reported and the cops did the right thing in checking this out.
Just wait for, “They were making money – for terrorism!”
The London boroughs a couple of years back had posters suggesting you should not give money to beggars because it might fund terrorism…
Untraceable one-use or limited-use disposable phones for drug dealers, pimps, and other criminals.
You are on a libertarian site. Other entrepreneurs fulfilling market demands of consenting adults you mean.
Reminds me of a good old libertarian saying: “When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom.”
Which should be legal
Which should be legal
But they are not being accused of being ‘other criminals’, they are being accused of being terrorists, so “They had lots of mobile phones!” had better not be the extent of their reason for arresting them.
Some of the details about this belie the “just for profit” idea.
If they were planning on reselling the phones for “normal” use, then why were they disassembling the boxes and separating out the batteries and power supplies, instead of keeping them all together in the original packages (which would make more money on the flea market circuit)?
On the other hand, if the phones were meant for one-off usage to hide crminal activities, breaking up the units would be just the thing to do, since you could put a lot more of them in a smaller volume, or mix and match of parts didn’t work right.
I can think of two reasons for breaking up some of the phones. For starters there is always a good market on ebay for replacement chargers and spare batteries for mobiles. I have bought several for mine like this in the past. Next many phones bought by small traders in this way are customer returns usually because the customer changed their mind or can’t work out how to use it. So its always a good idea to check everything is in the boxes and to have a few spares in case anything is missing. The mark up when reselling phones like this is usually good enough for you not to mind.
Ace of Spades has a bit of fun with this story, the Texas version rather than the Dearborn MI version.
It seems that this is the Muslim American version of selling magazine supscriptions, though one of the comenters questions the economics.
The Ace of Spades comments were interesting, or rather a couple were. If there are indeed people buying mobiles in bulk and stripping out chips to ship elsewhere then I hope we find those folks and fry them. This is completely unsubstantiated though, so I will with hold judgement until I hear some real evidence of wrongdoing.
That does not necessarily imply that the guys running around buying phones have a clue other than that someone will pay them x% profit for phones. Any good Del Boy understudy would go for it. I can almost imagine a script for the episode, with Del boy trying to talk his way out of it and trying to get the local priest (wasn’t that the white wine for sacremental wine deal?) to bail him out. and swear he isn’t muslim despite being found with a towel around his head because he had a splitting headache…
But I digress 🙂
And if anyone thinks no one would be dumb enough to go running around buying up phones based on being told a good story about why they would make money on it… I am reminded of a local man from here in the North who fell for the Nigerian scam to the tune of a small fortune.
Suckers are born. Every minute. In all shapes and sizes and types.
It’s all a terrorist plot. They are going to use these phones to simultaneously place prank calls all across America. Those darn terrorists.
“Hello”
“Hello, is Mustafa there?”
“No one by that name.”
“Well, Mustafa wrong number then.”
I once bought a pile of micro-pets.
I thought I was profiteering on what appeared to be that year’s “must have” Christmas gift.
I was wrong.
They were small easily concealable battery operated devices.
Clearly they could have triggered a binary liquid explosive.
Obviously I was a terrorist and not a student trying to make ends meet.
I shall hand myself over to the authorities.
See y’all in Belmarsh. We can get a 5-a-side team or something going.
I agree. I think it’s highly unlikely that these folks have anything substantial to do with terrorism.
The latest suggestion is that they were targeting the Mackinaw Bridge. And this is supposed to achieve – what, exactly? I’ll wager that what happened is that they searched the van and found a dusty tourist pamphlet for the Mackinaw City area from some long-forgotten family outing and – presto! Look, they had details of the bridge! We’ve already convinced ourselves that they are terrorists, this is just more proof!
Law enforcement is awfully vulnerable to confirmation bias – they are in the business of finding the guilty, not of exonerating the innocent. Some copper in small-town Caro, MI, has convinced himself that he got him a couple of A-rab terrorists, and this will run its course. Now that liquid deodorant is banned on airplanes, look for the discovery of a bottle of deodorant in the van as proof positive – they we carrying materials banned from airplanes, so obviously, they were planning to bomb airplanes!
Pity about that.
llater,
llamas
I tend to agree with Dale. I’ve brokered big lots of cell phones here in China, where there’s a huge market for remanufacture.
EXCEPT I can’t quite puzzle out why they would buy large quantities at the new-retail price. Most old mobiles sell for $5-15 dollars in large lots, though it’s possible, but not easy to strip out components and batteries and sell into separate markets. I wouldn’t say terrorism at first blush, but there’s a hint of bad business sense or desperation to fill out a bigger order in the details of their acquisitions.
Also, the idea suggested in Ace of Spades that they were going to ship the chips to Iraq for use in IED’s… just seems plain silly. Why buy prepaid phones in America when one could have bought them for chips in the thousands in Asia for a fraction of the price and with no unbribeable officials to worry about?
Whatever they were doing it, I doubt it was international.
I’m waiting to see if this story just quietly disappears as various law enforcement types hide their red faces or if they come out with a scenario that passes some level of ‘reasonableness’ and has evidence to back it up.
Until then, sorry guys. I do not buy a pig in poke.
Ilamas,
Some copper in small-town Caro, MI, has convinced himself that he got him a couple of A-rab terrorists, and this will run its course.
Much as I hate to shoot down a stereotype you so obviously enjoy, Caro is located in the Muslim belt in Michigan which has the highest per captia middle-eastern Muslim population in the US. Following long-standing American tradition, people from the same regions of the world tend to settle in same American locals. The lion’s share of middle eastern immigration since WWII has gone to Michigan.
No law enforcement officer in Michigan is going to regard someone of middle-eastern decent as inherently odd or suspicious.
So, Shannon,
It’s Mid-East to Mid-West. I’ve heard assorted net rumours about Dearbornistan recently. I’m stunned because I’d never heard of this immigration phenomenon before. So there is a major Islamic presence in the American Heartland. Oh bugger!
Shannon Love – it must have escaped you that I live in SE Michigan.
You’ve obviously never been to Caro, MI – I have. It most certainly is NOT in the ‘Muslim belt’ of Michigan, if there even is such a thing. It is a sleepy farm village in the Thumb with less than 5,000 residents, which the US census reports is better than 93% WASP.
As for this:
‘No law enforcement officer in Michigan is going to regard someone of middle-eastern decent as inherently odd or suspicious.’
Guess what – I’ve been a law-enforcement officer in Michigan, and I know different.
Have a fine day.
llater,
llamas
‘
Here – go take a look at the breathless coverage of this story from the local TV station in Flint, MI.
http://www.wnem.com/Global/story.asp?S=5269589
For a sea of wild, unsubstantiated speculation, disconnected non-stories and brash assertions made on no evidence whatever, it’s hard to beat.
Top prize goes to the nimrod from the MSP Bomb Squad, who reportedly asserted that buying pre-paid cell-phones has ‘all the hallmarks’ of making IED’s. I think this would come as some surprise to the millions of people who buy these ‘talk-and-toss’ phones.
After watching this coverage, I am now 99.9987% certain that these guys have no connection whatver to any sort of terrorism. The WalMart clerk called the cops, the cops stopped the van, they found some slightly unusual contents, and detained the occupants while they sorted it out. Now they’re on the spot and trying not to look like a bunch of fools when they let these guys go free – as they will. In a couple of weeks, when it’s all blown over.
llater,
llamas
llamas:
“I agree. I think it’s highly unlikely that these folks have anything substantial to do with terrorism.”
New info:
It turns out that these sweet, innocent guys with “no connection” to terror belong to Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Oops.
(You might also note that the “reseller” story has been used before, under the same circumstances, by guys who are currently in prison on terrorism charges, and that nobody has ever been able to identify a buyer for those “used” phones…)
Illamas,
Guess what – I’ve been a law-enforcement officer in Michigan, and I know different.
Am I to infer that you go off the rails every time you encountered a person from the middle-east?
What is this strange compulsion that so many have to view small town law enforcement as a bunch of hair trigger xenophobes? It’s just another stereotype whose only function is to make the holder feel superior.
I realize that there not all initial reports of potential terrorist activity pan out no matter how breathless the media reporting might be but there is also a pattern people denouncing arrest as mere hysteria that later result in convictions. Perhaps we should let the investigation continue and pay less attention to media speculation and drama before coming to a definite conclusion.
My employer has sold a fair number of sat phones as a retailer. We know, by serial number, who bought every one of them.
If you want a bunch of phones and you don’t mind them being traceable to you, buy wholesale. It’s really easy to set up an account to do so, and it saves a lot of money, particularly at the 1000 phone level.
If you’re paying retail for that many, you’re either stupid (and not buying low) or have some reason why that premium has value.
Michigan L-E types are more than a bit overboard in most instances; the FBI is scurrying around like roaches in a cellar everytime a light comes on, and the press–MSM, blog, “conservative” (whatever the flip that means anymore!)–faints like the belle of the ball at any supposed “bad” news.
Old Winston would hardly be surprised at the level of fear-mongering by government and the press, and even less so by the public’s like response, as if the devil himself were to crash a plane or two into the dwelling at 222 Anywhere Street.
War, war, every”war.” Wow! Damn, it is nerves on edge every moment. Who knows where those damnable Islamo-fascists (does “fascist” have a real meaning anymore?) will strike anymore.
Hints for those who worry . . . do not carry on Suave shampoo onto an airplane–it makes the brains of those who protect us foam up, and that ain’t good. Another tip–avoid being a Brazilian trying to take the tube uptown to work–that tends to be rather fatalistic. And whatever you do, avoid trips to the Middle East, where those folks have been fighting each other and causing everyone else a ton of grief for centuries.
Try selling cells . . . oh, wait a sec . . . that means you are going to blow up the Mac, or maybe, make a profit.
Fucking idiocy. We deserve it.
Sheesh!
cirby – I note that, while you claim that the Caro suspects ‘belong to Palestinian Islamic Jihad’, you provide no link to substantiate your allegation.
Meanwhile, here’s a link or two:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4117591.html
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060815/METRO/608150349/1003
The MSP has washed its hands of the case,since there’s no evidence of any plot to blow up the Big Mac, or anything else. I watched the Colonel on TV last night and it’s obvious that he’s satisfied that there’s nothing here.
Ditto the FBI.
But the Tuscola County Prosecutor is moving forward with the cases – obviously, he knows something that the State and the Feds have missed . . . .
Shannon Love – Off the rails? No.
But many LEO’s in outstate Michigan are going to regard any suspect of Middle Eastern descent as ‘odd or suspicious’ – your original words. As did these officers in small-town Caro.
You may have this vision of the ‘Muslim Belt’ of Michigan, but the fact is that the vast majority of Michigan Muslims/folks of Middle Eastern descent are in the tri-county area (Wayne/Oakland/Macomb) and the only people of Middle-Eastern descent than anyone outstate likely ever sees are the owners of party stores and gas stations – which means, well-known and established members of the community. So a call on a bunch of Middle-Eastern guys travelling in Tuscola or Berrien or Benzie is going to raise more than the average level of suspicion, because they’re most-likely strangers to the area. I’m sure it’s the same in rural Pennsylvania or Alabama. Sorry to burst your bubble an’ all.
llater,
llamas