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No sense of irony Heh. Who was that speaker again?
From an email circular promoting think-tank events around Europe:
London
21/02/06 Policy Exchange “Why the Agenda of the Future cannot be delivered by a person stuck in the Past” – William Hague MP, Shadow Foreign Secretary
RSVP: info@policyexchange.org.uk
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Is William Hague stuck in the past? How so?
Mike, I agree.
Hague was precient enough to point out all the troubles we are now facing. His comments of Britain becoming a ‘foreign land’ were derided as being rascist, xenophobic etc.
Roll forward five years: Islamists threatening to behead us for maintaining free speech (following terrorists attacks by ‘their brothers’), a state machine running amok reducing us all to numbers and bytes in database whilst telling us not to do things in our own private spaces.
Great Britain is truly a foreign land to anyone truly British.
I would also imagine Hague will slaughter ZaNuLab for trying to apply outdated measures for progression (i.e. big state, top heavy) whilst Hague himself is very much on this blog’s side of the debate.
Small state, lower taxes, more individual responsibility and freedom.
Mike and mbe – I didn’t get the irony, either. William Hague was rather prescient, in my opinion and rather than being stuck in the past, projected a vision of the future that was very astute.
I agree with Verity and would also note the delicious sight each week of Hague beating up Blair at PMQs. It must also be said, though, that Hague’s judgement was way off in putting himself forward as Conservative Party leader inn 1997. The party had just been trounced and was plainly out of office for a decade at least. His age at the time (late thirties) meant that time was on his side and he could afford to let someone else wreck their political career in trying to revive a party at a time when anyone and anything with a blue rozette was seen as a laughing stock. The Tories do need him though and he’s older and better for it now. It’s not out of the question that he’ll lead the party again after a failed Cameron leadership.
One thing we can be surie about is that Billy Hague has less hair than Cameron’s new sprog.
Who cares about Cameron’s new baby? Who cares? Who cares? Who cares?
Actually, Pete_London, I read a piece by someone somewhere saying Cameron would be out by the time the next election rolls round. They wrote that he will diffuse the harsh image of the Conservatives with all his centrist, soft left prattle and defuse the automatic “Anything but the Tories” thinking of the last few years. But there will be a more competent leader put in place to actually run in the election. This could be William Hague.
He is wonderful to watch during PMQT. Yesterday he was on particularly good form warming up with this
It is probably the first time in history at Question Time, that all three parties have been represented by a stand-in for the real leader.
which brought the house down (from all sides)
However, he never connected with voters in the way Cameron has. He is in the right spot now.
Pommygranate – He didn’t connect with the voters for two reasons: 1. The voters were sick to death of the Tories. 2. He was badly advised to ape Tony Blair instead of being his own man. He is older now, and steadier.
I’m another who ses no irony here.
Sadly, I also don’t see Hague as PM, because the great British pubic (sic) didn’t and won’t vote for him. If he had some vice they couldn’t abide I’d regret it and move on, but the reason the mature voters of Britain gave for not supporting Hague in 2001 (by which time the gloss on new labour had worn thin enough to show the lack of substance beneath) was that he is bald! As a slaphead myself I dispair.
Verity
1. is very true but
2. isn’t that exactly what Cameron is doing to such great effect?
Certainly, MarkE, noone likes a slaphead especially one that tries to cover it up by wearing a baseball cap at every opportunity
Pommygranate – Agreed, and I was going to mention that in my post. Hague was trying to look trendy and it didn’t become him and he looked uneasy with it. Cameron’s trying to look prime ministerial a la Tone. There’s a subtle difference, although I can’t quite put my finger on it.
Anyway, I think Cameron will also fail – partly because people hate Tony Blair.
Verity writes:
“I think Cameron will also fail – partly because people hate Tony Blair.”
Personally, I think Cameron will fail because people will soon come to see him as a limp, spineless opportunist with no convictions. Indeed, many already have – whatever some pollsters might wish us to believe.
GCooper – Personally, I think Cameron will fail because people will soon come to see him as a limp, spineless opportunist with no convictions.
As I said.
I’m still chuffed Verity agreed with something I said!
I not wholly convinced that DC will win the next election but am certainly convinced he will be a force for good for the Tory party: if he wins then at least ‘we’ are in power, if not the Right will have every justified reason to emerge from the political hinterlands with bold reforms.
I hate that my party has, to an extent, sold out but the alternative was no better. Both Hague and the party learnt a huge amount from 1997.
I expect Hague will be a very significant figure in British politics for many more years.
Verity says Hague was trying to look trendy and it didn’t become him and he looked uneasy with it.
That’s the thing – Hague listened to a bunch of poncy, metropolitan PR types when he should have listened to his mum. People can smell it when you aren’t yourself. Being bald is no problem, your class is no problem, being something you’re not always is and you’re always found out. Hague has substance, Cameron none whatever the polls show and Hague will come again – if he wants it enough.
mbe writes:
“I not wholly convinced that DC will win the next election but am certainly convinced he will be a force for good for the Tory party: if he wins then at least ‘we’ are in power…”
I don’t know who the hell this “we” represents. From what little of Cameron one has seen, it might possibly mean Liberal Democrats with delusions of adequacy.
It damned well doesn’t represent Conservatives.
GCooper: The Conservative party is, has and always will be more than a personification of its leader.
There is still a significant percentage of Tory MP’s that are ‘proper’ Tories: as a paliamentary party they are far more representative of the views of the wider Conservative consensus than the present media savvy leader and his hand picked coterie.
GCooper: The Conservative party is, has and always will be more than a personification of its leader.
There is still a significant percentage of Tory MP’s that are ‘proper’ Tories: as a paliamentary party they are far more representative of the views of the wider Conservative consensus than the present media savvy leader and his hand picked coterie.
Even if DC becomes PM he still has win over his MP’s to pass legislation.
I don’t see him still being leader by the time the next election comes. People are already disillusioned with him. I think the Tories will use him to soften the face of the Conservatives but once the voters don’t find the Tories scary any more, I think they’ll dump Cameron and put Hague or Davis in. I think Hague as he is an already an experience leader of the Opposition. I think this could be done quite neatly.
Verity writes:
” I think Hague as he is an already an experience leader of the Opposition. I think this could be done quite neatly.”
I don’t know whether it could or not, perhaps you’re right – but certainly it should .
I can think of nothing more absolutely bloody absurd than ‘Dave’ taking his politically correct two weeks ‘paternity leave’ – particularly at such a time of constitutional crisis. It’s just poodle faking.
Oh, god! I didn’t know Dave was taking paternity leave! Oh, pulleeeeze, tell me it doesn’t get any worse! Please, someone! Someone who aspires to run a big (populationwise and economywise) country is taking paternity leave?
Any man (or woman) who hasn’t got his brain dragging around his ankles knows that leading a country is a kind of 24/7 deal.
Worse, I don’t like his vapid, smug, self-congratulatory face. He’s a zero and came to “power” because he went to Eton. I’ve never met an OE I wasn’t charmed by. (Was Lord Lucan an OE, btw?) But I don’t know that charm is an actual qualification to run a government. This kind of thinking is what led to Bill Clinton, who did such damage to the international balance.
Well, the Scandinavian-style paternity leave (what the hell for? Isn’t the wife, whose name I have never bothered to learn, at home? How many people does it take to look after a tiny newborn baby?) leads to weakness and dhimmitude. The Norwegian prime minister has just apologised to the large Muslim population in Norway (that they let in, why?) and has placed himself, dhimmitude-wise, under the patronage of the most powerful Muslim organisation. Read melaniephillips.com and weep. His apology has allowed the prime minister of Norway to be “protected” by the powerful Islamic structure. He has been told that, having apologised, he is now protected – not by Norway’s fighting forces, if any, as they have destroyed their means to protect themselves, but by the local Islamic strongman.
The prime minister of a Viking nation. Thank god I got out of Europe!
Verity writes:
“Oh, god! I didn’t know Dave was taking paternity leave! Oh, pulleeeeze, tell me it doesn’t get any worse! Please, someone! Someone who aspires to run a big (populationwise and economywise) country is taking paternity leave?”
I’m afraid so – a full two weeks, with maximum publicity to show that he’s not just new – by god, he’s pristine!
And this, as Bliar marches his babes through the lobbies to rob us of our few remaining freedoms, koranimals (Tm) rampage through the streets demanding beheadings and the BBC is allowed to roll around in the latest manufactured UN ‘Guantanamo outrage’ story, without anyone in the Conservative Party wanting to know by what right we are taxed to promote a worldview more properly found in the pages of the Independent.
But ‘Dave’? Who knows? Maybe he has to learn how to breast-feed? Either way, he’s too damn busy to worry about any of the above.
I like William Hague but I would asses his chances of becoming leader before the next election at zero. David Cameron will be able to keep Tory poll ratings high enough to make MPs afraid to ditch him. As to whether or not Cameron can win I think it’s too early to say as we don’t know how he will stack up against Brown.
For all we might like to moan about Cameron not being a true Tory etc. the next election will be a straight Cameron-Brown choice. For me Cameron beats Brown any day.
GCooper – “But ‘Dave’? Who knows? Maybe he has to learn how to breast-feed? Either way, he’s too damn busy to worry about any of the above.”
I don’t know about busy, but certainly he is stupid. (I’d like to see his school records under the Freedom of Information Act). And is being managed by people who are not our friends.
Like cloney-Tony.
And with the Lib Dems, how many more have to bite the pillow?
The government of Britain has been emasculated.
As has the government of Norway, which is now in full dhimmitude posture, bum in the air.
The prime minister of Norway is now under the “protection” of the local warlord, after he offered a grovelling apology for the free press in Norway publishing the fucking cartoons. But the Muslim overlord said ‘don’t worry; I will now protect you.”
Fuck Norway.
DC’s paternity leave might well be the last two weeks he ever dares take after seeing Haig on PMQs!
The problem of getting Haig into the leadership will be Davis, who will not not try for the post and so force another leadership election. Davis is a John Reid sort – a useful front bench heavy, but unworkable as a leader IMO.
God bless you Verity,
Me and several (probably most now) other of my norwegian compatriots would prefer “fuck the norwegian government” and will do a fine job at the next election.
At least Hague’s Conservatives had some bloody policies and believed in something.
sesquipedalian – I’m sorry. I forgot that some of my fellow visitors to Samizdata might be Norwegians. I have liked every Norwegian I’ve ever met and should really have said, as you suggest, “Fuck the Norwegian government – soon, hopefully, to be the ex-Norwegian government.”
When is the next election sesquipedalian? Also, how are the Norwgian newspapers reacting to this? Could you clue us in, please? What is the general reaction among the electorate in Norway to this extraordinary event?
Please consider Verity’s request seconded- I happen to be making a trip to Norway in a few months, and would appreciate some insight into the matter.
Feel free to reply via email if you don’t think posting here would not be appropriate.
sesquipedalian, if you use email, please cc me, too.
Verity,
Don’t worry I don’t think you intended it that way
(no viking jihad).
The norwegian general election will be in about 3 years time if not called earlier.
http://www.aftenposten.no is the main ‘serious’ newspaper
and has an english language version.
Sadly there are not enough norwegian blogs in english (not since Erik Norman and Fjordman). Some
of the articles on the norwegian language blogs re the cartoons have 100s of comments eg. http://vampus.blogspot.com/ – not bad for a tiny country.
My main impression comes from talking to people.
Everyone I’ve spoken to is angry that the government is sold out to their anti-israel dimmi coalition partner (Sosialistiske Venstre).
Its a big opportunity for the
Progress Party. There’s a good chance there will be a new coaltion before the election.
People are talking more about this issue than even the olympics.
sesquipedalian
Thanks for the info. And doesn’t it always come back to the same bunch, eh? You always know that the things which you know defy all understanding, defy all common sense are invariably brought to you by the same people the world over. Now my Norwegian is about as good as my Serbo-Croat but even I can figure out what ‘Sosialistiske Venstre’ is all about. Remember folks, it can never be repeated too often – socialism is a mental illness.
Thank you, sesquipedalian. Very useful. I had been hoping Fjordman might post something about it somewhere, in English, but I don’t know where I’d find it now that he’s given up his superb blog. Do you know of any other English language blogs we can follow?
Aftenpost in English on the net doesn’t have an Opinions page, so we don’t know what the journalists are saying about it.
I will take the liberty of thanking you on behalf of the other commenters here, because this is such an extraordinary thing to have happened in Norway – the land of the Vikings! – of all places, and I think many of us are quite shaken.
From time to time there are aberrations in the finest of countries (incl.our own). In Norway, Vidkun Quisling springs to mind.
permanent expat – True. The entire British government is a quisling. There is not one decent individual in the ruling party.
Verity:- “There is not one decent individual in the ruling party.”
Oh I dunno. Kate Hoey ain’t too bad!
Ron – Well, she’s certainly running with some bad dogs. “I don’t want the state to do anything that isn’t being done for the benefit of people [and not just controlling things].”
And who is going to determine what is “for the benefit of the people”? Why, Kate Hoey, of course! Socialism is a mental illness.
Good for Kate…………..but why isn’t she with the horses instead of the asses? Her remarks about pistoleers & knee-jerk Dunblane are also telling….and another policewoman is shot down by a Yardie or whatever who, as our dear leaders well know, had absolutely no trouble in getting his gun …………………………………………………but back to Mr. Hague; having seen him in action I think he can give better than he gets. He’s a few years older now & can trust his own instinct……and he has the cojones.
Agreed about Hague, permanent expat. He is much quicker-witted than Blair, and thus frightening to an egomaniac like Blair who fears looking foolish. He does have cojones, and he does have a clear vision for Britain. I just hope like hell that he is the leader who takes the Tories into battle agains the monstrous Gordon Brown.
sesquipedalian, thank you for the Norway update. Maybe you could host an english blog? Just occasional mood on the street sort of thing? I’ve just had an experience that makes me think we on samizdata have more power than we realize.
In a different thread comment earlier I linked to an Islamic news web page gloating and bragging over ‘Norway Criminalizes Blasphemy’. In my comment, I showed an email I had sent to a local media outlet pointing at the Islamic site. I recommended that others also send similar emails to local media editors and directors. As far as I can tell, within an hour or two after my comment hit samizdata, the linked article was completely sanitized of everything except a single sentence noting the existence of the law.
Two things I take from this. One, we are lurked by an active and hostile Islamic presence. Two, they change the song when even a very small spotlight hits them.