An unfunded pension is like a university education. If everyone has one, you can’t expect it to be worth anything.
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25 comments to “More will mean worse” |
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As a university student increasingly cynical about both the value of his degree and the opportunities in the wide-world into which he is soon entering, I can only say this – too bloody right!
Good to see Hutber’s Law is still remembered. It’s certainly still in operation!
Is that Hutber’s Law? I thought for that law to come into effect, some measure of improvement had to have taken place at some point in time…
I went to university to expand my knowledge, to learn, to enjoy a few years of fun.
I don’t see how “If everyone has one” – it hurts me.
“An unfunded pension ” is a swindle.
Not all universities are swindles. Only some.
I still don’t understand why people of all stripes believe that conferring more degrees is a good thing, especially when academic courses are being dumbed down and scores moderated to enable even the most feeble-minded morons to graduate.
I once asked a group of teachers, “Are we truly getting smarter, or are tests just getting easier?”
Nobody dared to give me a straight answer. The whole mass higher education thing is just an exercise in flaccid thinking.
But then again, employers would still be able to pick from amongst graduates: the old saw about liberal arts graduates being the most pertinent example.
So sucks to be you if you’re in the liberal arts. But if you’re in the engineering or science fields, law, medicine, or even business, you’re looking good.
“I went to university to expand my knowledge, to learn, to enjoy a few years of fun.
I don’t see how “If everyone has one” – it hurts me.”
If you are so puzzled by a simple supply and demand equation then I wonder what course you were on.
Jacob, I’m sad for you because some of us did the same in the past and when we graduated we walked into well paid jobs.
So what are you and your generation going to do about the situation you are in now?
I once had an interesting discussion about whether a degree was more valuable when they were rare or when they were quite common.
Think about it. If all have a degree then advancement depends more on other factors.
But if degrees were quite rare the employer must again look to other factors in hiring and promotion. He cannot obtain enough employees with degrees.
The two extremes aren’t reality. But possessing a degree is probably most valuable when perhaps 20% have it. Only about that many people every advance more than one level in their work.
a degree is not a license to think
Although it makes no sense to me for everyone (or even many people) to have degrees, the US doesn’t seem to suffer for it. Yes, I know that at least half US undergrad degrees are equivalent to our A levels. Or at least our A levels of 20 years ago.
As an employer I don’t find degrees to be very useful. A degree from a top 10 university is a good predictor of an especially intelligent person, but that’s only about 40% of what makes a suitable candidate for me. Not having a degree is a very poor predictor of not being an especially intelligent person.
If I limited my candidates to only people from top 10 universities, I wouldn’t have enough candidates to get a suitable person.
So instead, I do not _require_ a degree on any jobs that I recruit for. If someone thinks that getting a degree will make them more employable that’s up to them.
In pure job terms, 3 years of working almost certainly makes you more likely to be suitable candidate than 3 years in uni. On the other hand, by about age 26 that doesn’t matter – the difference between 8 years work experience and 5 is negligible.
Jacob,
That sounds like an excellent reason to go to university. Another would be that certain jobs (like being a doctor) require it.
The problem that I have is with many of the middle-class people that I met when I was 17 (and I’m sure they are still around). They wanted to go to “uni” because it was the next thing to do, whether due to peer or parental expectation, or simply because they thought they could put off work for 3 years.
The cost of a degree and that there are so many graduates, now makes me think that for a lot of people looking at it as a way to get up the ladder quicker, it doesn’t add up any more.
The trick in getting a useful university education is to go there to learn something useful. This might sound obvious, but it falls on many deaf ears.
People often go to college (i’m speaking about America now) to have a good time, or to learn about something that interests them. I think most fail to realize that you need to learn something that interests on _employer_ or else you need to be very creative in finding an entrepreneurial application for your double major in medieval studies and feminism.
I think most people would be perfectly happy going to a trade school to get a true skill quickly and cheaply, and substituting pontificating professors with books or video games.
This will only work until robots replace all low-skilled labor. Then every non-creative or non-thinking job will become automated. In this case, a “highly skilled” professional like an air-traffic controller has more to worry about than a talented artist.
I completely agree. It’s time to start actively discouraging people from attending university.
I’m a grad student right now who makes ends meet teaching some of the required courses – that is, the interdisciplinary hoops freshmen and sophomores have to jump through to get handed their worthless certificate. I feel like a swindler.
Gradschool and university are great for people like me – since I’m actively pursuing a career as an academic. But for all the kids in my class who just wanna get out and get paid – this course is, frankly, a total waste of their time, and the university shouldn’t be putting them through it.
If trade schools had a better reputation, I estimate a good third of my class wouldn’t be here. But then, I guess, that’s the dirty secret, eh? Academics have polished their song and dance about the values of higher edu-ma-cation ’cause it’s harder to get paid otherwise…
I’ll be a stick in the mud and suggest that the second part of the equation is untrue. At least in regards to “worthwhile” educations. If every laborer in the economy had a higher skill level, then their productivity and quality of work would be that much higher, and the economy would be that much richer in reality. Goods and services would be better, etc. Even though such a “rising tide lifting all boats” wouldn’t necessarily raise any individual’s pay relative to others. Money is just paper, it’s the goods and services that make up wealth.
Robin-The fallacy in your thinking is that going to an university and getting a degree will automatically confer on the graduate a higher skill level and productivity.
And that is quite simply not true. At least not with the syllabi we have in place. If we want to make our courses such that people will graduate with higher skill levels, thinking skills, and higher productivity, they will by necessity be difficult courses that few people will qualify for, and the problem of having too many graduates will simply not appear at all(re: the physics discussion a few threads back.)
For many, trade schools are better.
J – if only there were more employers like you; I squandered a good education and left without A levels (they were harder in my day and it was possible to fail). After a couple of years in dead end jobs I went to night school while my mates were in pubs, and eventually gained a professional qualification, but never got a degree. Even today, with 20 years experience I see job specs requiring a degree. I tend not to get those jobs, presumably the candidates with degrees are better, but I get no complaints from those who do employ me.
Kidding school leavers that all degrees are equal in the job market is fraud, and would be illegal if done by anyone but the government.
A degree is not a marker of intelligence, rather a marker of those who can ( or really want to) jump through a series of hoops set for them. I don’t count “vocational” degrees such as becoming an MD in this. Much like MarkE I did the same and the jobs I could do on one leg with a blindfold on are beyond my reach as I don’t hold a degree ( curerntly studying for one as well as working though ). I work with some numptys who are “better educated” than I but I wouldn’t task them with a opening a can of beans.
Now, if I could learn to spell……..
gravid-If you could correct your grammar too…
Anyway, not all degrees are worthless, or just require people to jump through hoops. Some are more prestigious than others, and they invariably require real intelligence and effort that by the end of graduation, indicates to potential employers that the person is smart and disciplined.
Wobblyguy, I thank you for pointing out my mistakes as this helps me on the path of learning.
I do admit I was being flippant but I do have a point, as do you.
Maybe if I could go off topic and state that the “Interview” is a terribly inefficient method of ascertaining a suitable candidate for a role within a company. I know quite a few people more intelligent than I am (cue for ribald remarks, go on, you know you want to..) that have inadequate communication skills.( Excuse my woefully inadequate spelling, grammar and punctuation.)
I work with a number of technology companies, and a lot of the people I work with are real rocket scientists (not only have they read “a brief history of time”, they understood it). They does not necessarily make them more intelligent than I, just better educated in their field. One thing I have found is that the guys at the top of their field are not the best communicators, because they are so deep in it they have difficulty “coming down” to the level of mere mortals. I prefer to trust the CV, supported by references, to demonstrate they can do the job, and the interview to find if they fit in the existing team.
On education; if Einstein had been born a bare bum indian in the Amazon rain forest he would have been no less intelligent, but without education he would never have come up with general relativity.
Student’s years – the best years in our life 🙂 Now, I’m student of University of Managment. I go to the university for knowledge, which are helped me to contain in a prosperity my family, parents. And of course – in university we’ve finded our real best friends!
MarkE, fair enough-intelligence isn’t edcucation but the inadequate communication skills seem to be a hindrance in interview. In NI all interviews have to adhere to certain guidelines of equality and a scoring system. Is this the same in England, Scotland and wales?
MarkE – They does not necessarily make them more intelligent than I, just better educated in their field.
No. That they were able to master such an advanced field of human thought probably does mean they are smarter than you.
Verity
That they were able to master such an advanced field of human thought probably does mean they are smarter than you.
Probably agreed, but not necessarily. I am on weak ground here because I was foolish enough to squander a very good education, but I was intelligent enough to achieve reasonable exam results before I blew it, and after I staged my spectacular come-back, and I enjoy a similar level of respect in my field to them in theirs.
John – You’re scaring me. It can’t be that bad…
Can it?