Watching the news is starting to give me a strange throbbing headache. Most people in Britain realise that just because our enemies are Muslims, that does not mean all (or even most) Muslims are our enemies. Other than in a few shitholes like Oldham, most British folks really do value, or at least accept, the pluralistic tolerant society that largely prevails in these ‘Sceptred Isles’.
Ok? Did you get that Messers Blair, Howard, Kennedy, etc. etc? Most of us understand that and those who think otherwise are not going to listen to you anyway. You will note that synagogues getting vandalized in France are such a regular occurrence that it is hardly even news anymore, whereas a stone through a mosque window in the UK makes the papers. Does that tell you something?
So next time there is some hideous atrocity, be it here in the UK, in the USA, in Iraq, in Israel or anywhere else in the world that Al Qaeda or Hamas have infested, can you kindly resist the urge to say “But Islam is a religion of peace…”. We heard you before and we have not reacted to previous incidents by torching mosques from London to Lanarkshire. Please. PLEASE…just.shut.the.fuck.up.
Thank you.
“But Islam is a religion of peace…”
Tell a lie often enough and it becomes believable.
Who exactly is doping the tolerating in this poor benighted “Sceptered Isle”?
Us Peter, the poor benighted fools who’ve been hanging around these sceptered Isles for the last ten thousand years getting on with things and waiting for cool forigners to turn up and show us how things are really done.
Yes, and they have indeed been turning up rather regularly. Or were you under the impression that you would have any genetic similarity with some pre-Celt who was on this Island ‘ten thousand years’ ago?
Old Jack Tar writes:
“Or were you under the impression that you would have any genetic similarity with some pre-Celt who was on this Island ‘ten thousand years’ ago?”
You know, he just might. A few years ago, DNA samples taken from a dweller in the caves at Cheddar Gorge showed that a current local schoolmaster in that same area was a relative.
Damned dangerous stuff this DNA.
Old Jack Tar – in my case, back to ancient Celts, yes.
Meanwhile, much to my surprise, The Telegraph has a righteous leader: (Link) Very meaty reading.
Old Jack Tar, trickles of immigration are normal in any society. The Souix had people from the threads of the other six tribes marrying in; and Chocsaw and Iroquois marrying in; the Apaches had Chikadees and Seminoles marrying in. One at a time. Such is life. But two million dumped on our tribes? – no. It could never have worked – and nor was it intended to work. It was always designed to destroy British cohesiveness.
Let us not forget that before we sink under Tony Blair’s oleagenous profusions of mutual guilt.
Trickles of immigration to improve the breed are sensible. Why let your society stagnate due to inbreeding of genes and thoughts? If this is the rationale for immigration, then it makes sense to be selective about it. Bringing in boatloads of ‘aliens’ with irreconcilable differences (with the host society), who have voting rights and breed faster than the indigenous population, is a recipe for disaster (for the host society, anyway).
Shouldn’t it be up to MUSLIMS to tell us they practice a “reiligon of peace”?
I’m just, y’know, asking…
Most of which is irrelevent to the article, which ain’t about immigration…
Yeah, I am sick to death of this crap too everytime some fuckwit blows himself up to be with his delusional guy-in-the-sky. Enough with the damn excuses.
As an Oldhamer (living in a largely muslim area, no less) the only time I have heard about anyone being harassed since the terror attacks has been when the enlightened members of our ruling class feel the need to ask us not to petrol bomb mosques.
Of course, a perception in the public mind of us northern savages burning Korans and goose-stepping down the High Street is probably quite useful when you are attempting to introduce ‘Incitement to religious hatred’ laws.
I can’t argue that this place isn’t a shithole though, i’d encourage torching mosques if the rest of Oldham was to follow.
Thank you, Perry.
Reid: some of them are telling us, and some of them may even actually believe it. But, as long as they are a tiny minority, so what? Religion is in the eyes of the beholder, so to speak.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) that Perry might be referring to the repellent Michael Howard and his equally unpleasant other half (Our Little Tone) competing in the Commons yesterday to see how many individual liberties they could strip from us this week. Apart from the Orwellian reality of Thought Police (you will only have to think about committing a terrorist offence to be arrested) we are also going to see a new raft of stupid, unenforceable and pointless laws introduced as a bad kneejerk reaction – most notably laws that can prosecuting anyone for assisting a terrorist even through support of their views and ideals.
Bet Li’l Tone didn’t think that his mate Ken Livingstone could be the first one arrested under that law, did he?
I live in Oldham so thanks for the comment. I’ve also campaigned against the BNP. If you were a little more alert you will find their threat has been neutralised in recent elections. Indeed there is currently a local festival (widely supported) in the town to celebrate diversity. And Saddleworth is rather beautiful. Even the posh southern tarts who make posts to this website might like it.
Julian:
http://therussiandilettante.blogspot.com/2005/07/and-so-they-did-achieve-something.html
I saw John Stalker on Newsnight last night. He made the point that any decent detective had as much in the way of anti-terrorism laws as he could reasonably need, and that the government was yet again knee-jerking (quelle surprise).
We had IRA terrorism for 30 years. We’ve known about the threat of Islamic terrorism (sorry Mr Paddick, it just slipped out) for at least ten years. Phony Tony and his freedom munchers have just ramrodded another anti-terror Act through Parliament. Just what is this magic legislative bullet against terrorism which no-one has found to date, but which Fungus Clarke is about to produce fully formed from his ample bottom? How about forcing ISP’s to keep all e-mails for 5 years? That’ll work won’t it? We all know the evil terrorists communicate entirely by e-mail, and if only the security forces could trawl through the billions of e-mails sent every single day all our problems would be solved.
If the police ever get to the bottom of who was behind this attack on London it will be by painstaking and diligent detective work, not by any flashy new anti-terror legislation. And I expect we will find the terror group consisted of a handful of fanatics. They are not strong, they are weak and pathetic, but by upending our constitution and shredding our ancient freedoms, the fool Bliar and his mirror cracking acolyte Clarke give them the sort of influence they should only have in their wet dreams.
My impression is that quite a lot of people aren’t in favour of multiculturalism at all. The bombing will of course only serve to increase that number.
I take the point that people have made about low levels of immigration having benefits for a society, and I’m not a “keep Britain white” person by any means, but I’m fascinated by issues that the whole political elite unites behind and where criticism of same makes a person beyond the pale.
Multiculturalism is of course one of these issues. It almost seems like we’re not allowed to have a choice over it, and that can’t be right.
They might have welcomed mosque-burning. It would have made passing bad laws easier, and its too-obvious lack threatens sacred cows such as the new religious hate crime law.
What they’re really worried about, I suspect, is that they’ll lose the “high end” of the discussion. People might start asking questions like “are these guys British enough?” And that leads to even more awkward questions like “are these metropolitan socialists particularly British either?” – and then the whole Project might come apart like a knit jumper in a Tom&Jerry cartoon.
Excellent post, although You will note that synagogues getting vandalized in France are such a regular occurrence that it is hardly even news anymore is unfair. It’s Algerian Muslim immigrants who are burning down French synagogues, so I don’t think it’s right to use synagogue burnings to prove the native French are any more violent or irrational in this regard.
Campaigning against the BNP is a good idea. But it might just be a better idea in the light of the attacks in London to campaign against the mad mullah filling local youth with hatred against everyone but themselves? Or is campaigning against the BNP just easier and less controversial?
What they’re really worried about, I suspect, is that they’ll lose the “high end” of the discussion. People might start asking questions like “are these guys British enough?” And that leads to even more awkward questions like “are these metropolitan socialists particularly British either?” – and then the whole Project might come apart like a knit jumper in a Tom&Jerry cartoon.
Hear, hear!
Who said anything about multiculturalism? Multiculturalism means accepting all cultures as being as good as each other. Tolerance on the other hand means tolerating other cultures, and that is not at all the same thing as accepting those other cultures as being a good thing at all.
For example, one can tolerate other people being homosexual but that does not mean you have to accept that homosexuality is just fine, merely that it is none of your business and is not grounds for persecuting someone.
And tolerance has its limits. If a culture accepts certain things which are inimical to other cultures and tolerance itself (such as Sharia law, for example), a tolerant society tolerating that makes no sense.
All I said was that synagogues get torched rather often in France (by whoever), unlike Britain, and the ‘system’ (which is not made up of Algerian Muslim immigrants) seems to be doing rather too little to stop it.
I am sure not everyone in Oldham (or even a majority, though I don’t live there so I cannot really say) are knuckle dragging BNP supporters, but clearly there are enough people to raise a quorum for a rather lusty race riot, so I do not feel holding up Oldham as (a) a shithole (b) a place with a significent constituency in favour of racist violence, is really all too unfair.
The left love waving the shroud of the BNP at the rest of us,it obfuscates the fact that the SWP and Islamofascists are far more dangerous.
Connections between the SWP and the Muslim Brotherhood are close,for them the Revolution has begun.The Jihadis are the new shock troops of the proletariat.
Dear God, the heart sinks. Was it also supported by those Oldham muslims who openly celebrated mass murder in London last week? I suspect it’s ‘widely supported’ only by council employees, cattle-prodded into hanging bunting and running stalls.
Micahel writes:
“… to celebrate diversity.”
Now there’s a phrase to strike fear into even the stoutest of hearts.
Do people actually believe this rubbish or, while they sleep, do they somehow get programmed to spout it?
What Pete_London and G Cooper said. My heart also plunged south when I read it.
Michael – Could you please enlighten us: what is it about “diversity” – meaning unassimilable chunks of an alien, backward and unpleasant culture imposed on the indigenes without their permission – that you were celebrating. Answers on the back of a postage stamp, please.
We had a diversity celebration here recently. Read this
and note the difference between what happened and what the BBC say happened !
Do you really need to introduce new legislation to outlaw burning down places of worship? Doesn’t civilian property and criminal law already cover this?
I adhere to the principle that all crimes are hate crimes. You don’t thieve an old ladies hand bag because you like her, and neither do you pack a backpack full of explosives with the intent of spreading Allah’s love either.
Crime is crime. I enjoyed the analysis by Anatole Kaletsky in The Times
Read the rest here
What cracks me up about this so called “Peaceful Religion” is that as a Muslim, if you ever decide to leave the Islamic faith, according to Sharia Law, the punishment for apostasy is death. The revelations of Allah in the Quran require the death of all apostates. Now that’s one hell of a peaceful and tolerant religion.
There isn’t anything peaceful or tolerant about Islam or Islamic laws.
A slight quibble with the Telegraph editorial Verity likes so much …
Wasn’t that the basis on which Henry VIII and successors persecuted Catholics? Should this policy be resumed?
And scummy, sleazy tony blair tries to turn the blame on the British – “No revenge! No backlash!” he lectures, although there never was any. Doesn’t he know his own people? But this is all to divert attention from, a) the violence and Stone Age backwardness of Islam and b) his own failure to control immigration and immigrants – in other words, his failure to ensure that immigrants obey British laws. Instead, he wants us to obey theirs.
A backlash will come, but it will not be petty, like bombing mosques. I see mosques in the West as temporary anyway. An aberration. They don’t belong here. In another 20 years they’ll all be discos and lap dancing clubs. But a backlash of some sort is coming. I can feel it. The British people are turning. If the British turn, the Dutch and the French will turn. Big time.
Meanwhile, happy Bastille Day to one and all, especially nos amis who were lucky enough to lose out on the Olympics!
We do live in strange and disturbing times when even the BBC is questioning multicultism including this gem written by an employee (well, at least he is for the moment )
“British politicians are not only having to review domestic security. They are being forced to think again about the mix of liberal policies pursued by successive governments since the 1960s – collectively known as multi-culturalism. “
No way….! Yes way!
verity: quote: “a backlash of some sort is coming. I can feel it.”
Sounds more to me as if you wish for this to happen. Nice.
On the “violence of Islam”, many may remember that an avowedly ‘born-again’ Christian president has been exterminating large numbers of brown people recently in order to bring them ‘freedom’. And has been describing his ‘mission’ in language littered with Christian/biblical references. And that his knuckle dragging constituency is comprised in large part of born-agains. I could go on.
Watching the news, (from abroad), directly after the London bombings, it was very noticeable that the first thing that Blair, the police, the fire brigade and the emergency services spokespeople said on getting to a microphone, was to praise their own department’s efforts in responding so quickly to the emergency.
Now, far from coming across as a ‘thank you’ to the people actually doing the dirty work, it came over as an excercise in preempting any criticism of said departments. It was a perfect example of ‘blowing their own trumpets’, which is – of course – so typical of modern British bureaucracy, and seems to be used as a tactic to cover their backs.
That the very people making the speeches to a world-wide audience were the very ones largely responsible – by way of their total ineptitude – for providing the conditions for such an incident to happen in the first place, seemed not to bother them one little bit.
The studied ‘heartfelt delivery’, the poe faced expressions, seemed all so well rehearsed, and lacking in any vestige of sincerity, that it was difficult to feel that great unifying effect, that such an incident usually has on a community, the ‘talking heads’ had, quite cynically, sucked the ‘cup of emmpathy’ dry.
The feeling of a ‘blitz’ style unity just wasn’t there, much as the media tried to engender such a feeling.
Award for the ‘Most stupid and inappropriate’ quote of the day from an authority figure: Sir Ian Blair, London Met Police Commissioner (in an interview with The Evening Standard):
“For the Muslim community, their worst nightmare has been fulfilled. We will be offering them the opportunity to work closely with us. The message must be that there is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist, but help us stop the slide into extremism”.
So, democracy-denying ‘fundamentalism’ is OK, is it? It’s not a form of ‘extremism’…no, not at all…clearly Sir Ian has swallowed hook, line and sinker the multiculti orthodoxy that, as long as the fundamentalism is the property of the ‘right’ minority group, it MUST be tolerated. Oh, except there is no such thing as ‘Islamic fundamentalism’ or according to his equally enlightenned colleague Paddick, ‘Islamic’ and ‘terrorist’ don’t go together (they should try discussing that one with Mohammed Bouyeri the self-confessed killer of Theo van Gogh who said in court yesyerday that he did it (and would “do it again” if ever released) for “my religion” – and he wasn’t talking about Anglicanism).
Award for ‘Most clear-sighted and appropriate’ (and brave, given his position in the police service) comment of the day goes to Ian Roberts, a ‘serving police officer’, whose letter to the Evening Standard is published also today:
“I regularly policed the Friday services held by Abu Hamza outside the Finsbury Park Mosque and was often questioned as to why no action was taken against him. On asking senior police officers I was often told that action was in the pipeline. et nothnig took place until the US asked for him to be extradited and he was taken into custody.If police had taken earlier action to stop him and acted decisively in similar circumstances elsewhere, then perhaps the recent outrage might not have occurred”.
How can it be that wisdom and foresight seems in this case to be so inversely related to position in the police service hierarchy?
Quite so! How dare that lousy cowboy stop Saddam from gassing and slaughtering his own people! Doesn’t he realise that Saddam and his two wonderful sons were just exercising Iraq’s sovereign rights? If it was ok for the previous 25 years, why stop him now, eh? After all, ‘brown people’ LOVE being killed by their own leaders whereas nothing could be more insulting than a bunch of American and British troops killing members of the Baathist regime and then FORCING the poor Iraqi people to go out and vote in democratic elections!
I mean, that is almost as bad as depriving large numbers of French enarques of all that money flowing into Elf Aquitaine’s bank accounts! Damn that George Bush and his evil bible quoting meddling ways!
No, DavidBruno, fundamentalism is NOT a form of extremism.
It’s perfectly possible to be a Moslem fundamentalist (or Christian, or Jewish, etc) without at the same time being an extremist or approving of extremist measures such as terrorism, suicide bombing, martyrdom, etc.
Many bookshops sell dictionaries, and there are even some available free online. You may wish to consult them.
EG
Euan shows that a person can be technically correct whilst at the same time wilfully disregarding reality. Sure, a fundamentalist Christian probably does not go around murdering Wiccans because “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” as there are many other bits of the Bible which send a rather different message. The sad truth is that to be a fundamentalist Muslim on the other hand means that you really do think that Sharia should be the law of the land and should be imposed by force. Islam is toxic by nature and it is not a religion of peace by any meaningful definition. Tolerating fundimentalist Islam at all is wishful thinking at its worst.
“these killings should be treated as pure criminal acts with no political significance whatsoever…. ”
Keep burying you head in the sand ….
This wasn’t a random crime. It was of a very specific type: Islamic fundamentalist terror. Maybe this has no political significance, but it has deep religious and social significance.
Keep pretending it wasn’t political, and being “puzzled” as to the motives …
Foucault’s Buddy – you’re supposed to give your email address, not a link to your blog.
Yes, I very much hope for a backlash, but whether I want it or not, it looks as though it is coming, judging from the comments in the newspapers and even on the Beeb.
Whether fundamentalism and extremism coincide is totally dependent on how extreme the fundamentals are.
If the fundamentals allow the cold blooded murder of others as part of the belief system,yes they coincide.
Nobody ever heard of a “moderate” Aztec.
EG
“No, DavidBruno, fundamentalism is NOT a form of extremism.”
Make no mistake – Blair was talking about ‘islamic fundamentalism’ which in theory is harmless but in practice, in those despotic states where it has full reign, means:
— no separation between the religious and the political;
— religious law only: ie Sharia law;
— women (and a host of minority groups) deprived of full civil rights in a Western sense and de facto second-class citizens at the mercy of Sharia law.
Blair’s use of the word ‘slides’ between fundamentalism and terrorism are a Freudian slip indicating that he knows they are on the same continuum and that one is further along than the other. An Islamic fundamentalist based in a Western country who preaches that it is a husband’s right to ‘beat his wife’ or to kill a Jew or a homosexual is an extremist but not necessarily a terrorist.
The global jihadists who use terrorism are seeking to enforce their brand of Islamic fundamentalism on infidels and Muslims alike across the world.
EG
“Many bookshops sell dictionaries, and there are even some available free online. You may wish to consult them.”
You may wish to visit a brain shop and purchase a brain and then return and argue with me.
Oh dear Perry. I think you’ll find a disproportionate number of us knuckle draggers actually doing the fighting in hotspots such as Iraq. To labour the point a bit more, the BNP got less than 7% of the vote in Oldham West and less than 5% in Oldham East – you’ll much find higher turnouts for the BNP closer to the great metropolis. And I now realise ‘celebrating diversity’ is a bit poncy sounding, but I kind of thought that ‘diversity’ was what made London and New York better cities than say…Paris? Not really an ‘alien, backward and unpleasant culture imposed on the indigenes’ (whoever the indigenes are – or maybe samizdata contributors are as exclusive and purist as our extremist muslim confreres?). As for campaigning against extremists in the muslim community – let’s do it. But not by giving sucour to the BNP. Let’s make terrorism history too. I’ll campaign for that – no question.
Michael
No, ‘celebrating diversity’ doesn’t sound poncy, ‘dhimmi’ is the word you’re looking for.
“Let’s make terrorism history!” Maybe you could get Kate Moss to snap her fingers. Re diversity, you’ve been sold a pup. There has to be a unifying culture in any society, and shared values and a shared history. Dumping hundreds of thousands of outsiders on a formerly cohesive society and giving it a name – multiculturalism; diversity – weakens the host culture.
Immigration, by all means. We have benefited from the Jews we welcomed after WWII and the Indians we gave refuge to when Fatty Amin kicked them out. But they were comparatively small in number, and they intelligently undertook to fit in with the host society. Far from whining and trying to insist that we embrace their culture, they fitted in and become major achievers.
The Islamics are whiners, cry babies, malcontents, underachievers, passengers and trouble makers. Obviously, not all. But more than Tony Bliar and his cadre will allow.
Here is a perfect example of using the odious BNP as a smokesreen to obscure the fact that more than 50 people have been murdered by those celebrating their diversity.
An absolutely guaranteed way of increasing BNP support is ignoring the fact that the political stakes have been upped to the use of mass murder to achieve political ends.
No matter how vile the BNP it has not plumbed these depths.
Now a British born Pakistani in England can demand the right to avenge the claimed wrong done to an Arab in Afghanistan.Celebrating diversity indeed.
Being anti- fascist is very admirable,buts lets accept who fits this definition
Foucault’s Buddy–
Do you remember what happened to Foucault’s actual buddy?
Snide’s best argument in favour of The Great Leader’s ‘crusade’ seems to be that he’s not as bad as Saddam was. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Christian militarism as practised by Bush et al. Neither does it make a convincing case for the moral superiority of Christianity over Islam. Moreover, the Bush administration’s continuing alliances with torturers and tyrants would seem to undermine the gist of snide’s comment.
Verity’s shameless endorsement of a backlash is chilling, as I’m sure she wants it to be. I wonder what form she envisages or hopes this will take? Perhaps she might enlighten us on this.
Certainly, Ami de Foucault – I think the majority of British are going to demand the deportation (including swabs of DNA so they can’t get back in) of every radical Islamic who has ever spoken violently against Britain. People will demand the closure of radical mosques, and may demand that the police get search warrants to go in and search them for bomb-making equipment, arms and seditious literature.
I think the British are getting ready to tell Tony Blair that he is partly to blame for creating the climate of never-ending grievance these people have. I think they are realizing that Tony Blair has been complicit in encouraging grievances by constantly lying to the British people about the gravity of the threat to their lives. I think people are realizing that Tony Blair, with authoritarian, illiberal denials of what every other Briton knows has failed in his duty to safeguard our country.
I have read commentaries all over the blogosphere and the British press that people think Brian Paddick and Ian Blair are bullies.
People aren’t shrugging any more.
If you believe that fighting sedition is “chilling”, then doubtless you will continue to find my posts – and those of many, many others – chilling. This is a matter of mind-boggling indifference to me.
Harumph.
All this exhorting of the native British infidels not to kill the British Muslims by officialdom is all well and good, but where is the voice of officialdom exhorting the British Muslims not to kill the native British infidels?
The British Muslims are the ones who currently have the advantage, scorewise.
Exactly, Susan, who cuts to the chase, as always. I believe the British are going to begin demanding that Blair fulfill his role of protecting Britain. That includes arresting seditious Muslims and imprisoning or deporting those found guilty. It means telling this mythical “Muslim community” – including the ghastly Iqbal sacranie and the vile counterparts that infest British cities – that the days of wine and roses are over.
Le Copain de Faucault, in his lefty, “liberal”(= illiberal) mindset, cannot envisage the word “backlash” not meaning what he has been trained by the Tony Blairs, Ian Blairs, Brian Paddicks to think it means.
What we laughingly refer to as Britain’s “leaders” are going to see a backlash against their vapid preaching of tolerance of the intolerable and their stream of multiculti vomit. Now Blair is wondering what we have done to deserve the wrath of these young fuckwits. Has Britain ever had a more stupid, weaker prime minister?
And now, ladies and gentlemen, besides being stupid and weak, Tony Blair is frit.
What many Muslims fear is a ‘backlash’. But that backlash involves petrol bombs and murder.
I don’t understand the rather odd litany of accusations you level at Blair. Despite my scepticism and hostility towards the PM, your comments read as paranoid and incomprehensible.
On ‘fighting sedition’, as you put it, I agree with some of what you say. But then, incitement to murder is a crime anyway, isn’t it? Perhaps, however, what fuels some of the current rage, is the equanimity with which the law and the government regard massacres like that at Fallujah. Terror is not confined to slaughter in the London tube, nor is it confined to the nihilism of the suicide bombers in Iraq; state acts of terrorism, like Fallujah, are also deadly. But these are cloaked in the discourse of legitimacy and legality. Understand that, and deal with it; then, the swamp may eventually be drained.
Here’s a newsflash for you, foucault’s bud – I don’t give a flying flea fart what many Muslims fear. I am not expecting a freelance British “backlash” as you term it, against the Muzzies, and find it odd that you jumped to such a negative conclusion. That is not the British way.
As I said, the backlash will be a tide of anger against T Blair & Co. There is more than one kind of backlash, you blithering idiot; but you simplistically jumped to the lefty, self-righteous, preachy one. Do try to keep an open mind, there’s a good chap.
Foucault’s chum
I find Verity’s attitude deeply heartening and, like many, wholeheartedly concur. Take something for your vapours and get out more.
Now, can someone tell me just WTF is going on in Trafalgar Square this evening? I heard a vigil is being held. Three times I’ve turned over to Sky News’ live transmission only to see Trevor McDonald first, Jo Brand second and Richard & Judy just now.
Is this a vigil or the BAFTA awards? Can we not summon up an ounce of dignity in this land anymore? 53 people are the victims of mass, terrorist murder and we have Jo Brand and Richard & Judy addressing the crowd in Trafalgar Square?!
Fucking hell.
What the flying fuck has Fallujah got to do with Yorkshiremen of Pakistani or Bangladeshi descent,they are Asian not Arabs?
The moral cretinism of those on the left is becoming almost as deranged as their adopted jihadis.The number of London Tube passengers involved in combat at Fallujah is vanishingly small.
Would Foucaults Buttock care to enunciate the connection between an Arab foreign fighter in Fallujah and a kid whose father has a fish and chip shop blowing himself and innocent people to pieces.
Come on Fouci baby join the dots for us.
Is there nothing the British left cannot diminish?
They are probably going to “say no to terrorism”, although allowing for the grievances to be found in the “root causes”. Fifty-three families who didn’t deserve or expect it are in mourning (and hundreds more suddenly have blind or double amputee husbands, wives, children) and these cheap boors are going to use the event to inflate their ravenous egos.
I will save them the trouble, if any of them would prefer to stay home instead, and watch old videos of themselves: The “root cause” of terrorism is the Islamic injunction to martyrdom. That’s it. End of story. Not complicated at all.
In 1983, a bunch of Muslim fuckwits (“martyrs”) drove an explosive-laden truck into the US Marines HQ in Beirut, murdering 241 American servicemen, the most people murdered by suicide bombers in one go until that date. In Teheran, there is a stone column commemorating this “struggle against global blasphemy”. Blasphemy is not being a Muslim.
It’s a martyr’s duty to kill blasphemers. Cool it with the search for “root causes”. That’s it.
Michael: diversity is fine as long as it is not being shoved down the people’s throats. Problem is, most of us in the
West have long forgotten what did that feel like.
Also, NYC is very different from London, as it originally was, and still remains a city of immigrants from the world over.
The first part of my post above referred to Pete_London’s mention of some sentiment-fest in Trafalgar Sq.
It is being turned into an Olympics fest,by that slimy toad Livingstone
Not the BBC losing Faith?
Verity, your apparent identification of Beirut 1983 as some kind of year zero for the suicide cult is innacurate. The ketamine which your beloved marines were pumped full of in Vietnam was intended to inculcate a lack of concern in the poor sods as to whether they lived or died.
It’s unfortunate that you don’t give a flying fart for the fears of British Muslims. In case you hadn’t noticed they are British. And therefore have as much right to comment/vote/emote as you do. Where, in your singularly unpleasant universe, do you intend to deport them to?
You may not have noticed this, but there are no degrees of Britishness. In other words, there are brown skinned Muslim people who are as British as any one else.
I have nothing against diversity and I am all for rational tolerance, which I think is the very bedrock of Enlightenment civilization. Moreover, as my article says, I believe that most Brits actually feel the same way as they stuff their faces with Chicken Tikka Marsala and Kebabs and miscegenate like crazy. I am all for that as I am a cosmopolitan assimilationist.
In that case, Perry, we are as one.
Faucault’s Butty, It’s unfortunate that you don’t give a flying fart for the fears of British Muslims.
No. It’s not unfortunate at all. What’s unfortunate is the pathetic fallacy of the moral equivalency brigade, in which you are a fine little soldier.
Where would I deport them to? Why, where they go to find their highly educated, witty, stylish, independent-minded brides: Pakistan.
Suicide bombers are enjoined to kill people because non-Islamics are displeasing their diety. Everyone who is not Islamic is an apostate because – you may not have known this – everyone is born Islamic. They want you back. One way or another.
They are not all nutcases, but those who shelter nutcases and don’t grass on the mad mullahs and the festering mosques are guilty. This is why I say that complicity is far wider than just a few mosques and a few raving loonies. There are a lot of very quiet Muslims who cannot bring themselves to condemn these killers in the cause because, deep down, they believe they are martyrs.
“It’s unfortunate that you don’t give a flying fart for the fears of British Muslims. In case you hadn’t noticed they are British. And therefore have as much right to comment/vote/emote as you do. ”
They do not however,have the right to emote all over the Tube.
The other thought is,they do not regard themselves as British,eschewing any form of British protest and the many political means available.
A belief in universal Sharia Law absolutely precludes British nationality,laws and culture.
..and kid,this isn’t any normal debate,we are angry,extremely angry.
Now the left are going to have a very nasty time,they have lost the bogus moral ascendancy with which the perpetrated the big lie.The man in the street is calling the ruling elite liars!
Foucault’s fudge pusher:
Right now I don’t care much for their fears either. They may be British and they may have the same rights as I but right now what I care about is their obligations.
They consider themselves to be Muslims before they consider themselves to be British and I don’t have a problem with that either particularly but, they have people in their “community” who also consider themselves Muslims who have blown up other British ciitizens whose rights to vote, comment and emote they showed nothing but contempt for.
So don’t preach to us when we point out that a duty of British Muslim “leaders” must be to ensure that those calling themselves Muslims who are murderously hostile to other British citizens should be routed out and shunned very loudly and publicly right now.
If the British Muslim leaders do not perform these duties themselves then it becomes the business of other British citizens to bypass them and do the job for them in an effective manner where being polite and pc about it will not be the highest priority.
Verity’s last comment, at last, reveals the true nature of her political ‘position’. She advocates deporting British citizens who she doesn’t like the look of. Anyone in any doubt as to what she is saying, and the politics she is invoking here, will not need to look far to discover her fellow travellers. I wonder how many of those who voice similar sentiments are comfortable with the company they are keeping?
Foucault’s Botty –
Read some of the posts above. They – and similar comments on many other blogs – confirm what I said. A backlash has begun. The average Brit is sick of the whining and special pleading for ever and ever greater dispensations – some attention seeking little Muslim bint wants to wear the Muslim full monty to school instead of the Muslim uniform the school stupidly allows and wins a court case, blah blah blah. We are fed up and angry that these people have been encouraged to complain that they don’t want people to refer to their religious book as the Koran: it’s “the Holy Koran” – it’ll be a cold day in hell, Mohammed; they want to wear their creepy veils for their drivers’ licence photos and on and on and on and on, they want to stop normal Scots from drinking in pavement cafes in Glasgow (picked the wrong city there, Ahmad!). Everything special for them – because they’re Muslim and they look on their kindly host country with contempt because their Stone Age “culture” is superior – stop that belly laughter in the back of the class! – to British culture. You only have to see that sneer that (S)iqbal Sacranie can’t force himself to suppress when he is lecturing the British.
We are very, very angry with the politicians, especially the servile left, for encouraging, in the name of multiculti, this obviously hostile behaviour to continue for so long until it culminated in the deaths and serious wounding of 752 people who were innocently going to work.
And this endless supposedly reassuring mantra of, “We know who they are and we’re keeping an eye on them.” Well, that worked a treat, didn’t it? Next time try deporting them by the Baader-Meinhoff-Mogadishu Method.
The political left, including the great phoney one, are going to feel the backlash so quickly it’s going to feel like whiplash. Even the ever-opportunistic BBC has spotted the trend and nipped on board the train.
People who call themselves “foucault’s buddy” really ought not talk about the company they keep. While Foucault was agitating for Islamism in the 1970s–the “healthy religion of combat and sacrifice”–while having his fun in San Francisco, actual gay people were being murdered every day by Foucault’s buddy, the Ayatollah (whom he met three times), without trial. Of course for at least one year after the revolution–“the collective will”–Foucault also didn’t think trials (“bourgeois legalism”) should hinder the regime either.
“…British citizens who she doesn’t like the look of.” Were you in a cave since last Wednesday?
Good to read your last post Perry. My point has always been a big majority of Oldhamers feel the the same way too. But your post has produced some pretty nasty responses. A few knuckle draggers seem to populate these threads.
Diversity is almost as bad as Multiculturism. Where I live in part of Yorkshire there is a “multicultural centre”.
It is exclusively for Muslims. When a Chinese family turned up they were quickly sent away, because the Muslims don’t like Chinese people.
Jeez,
Michael,knuckledraggers,you come from Oldham?
You still seem to regard the cold blooded murder of more than 50 people as nothing,just something that comes with multiculturalism,a little teething problem on the way to utopia.
The bombers were ordinary unecceptional young men,just like the ones next door.It isn’t too much to ask than the Muslim community takes steps tp stamp out this death cult in their midst.
The moderate Muslims must define themselves,we are the injured party.
I would recommend that Verity’s fans read a few of the leading articles here and then try joining the dots. If you’re still happy, then enjoy the company of your new soul-mates. But prepare yourself to lose your deposit at the next election.
To every word of what Peter said, here! here!
Although please let us stop referring “only” to the (now 54) dead victims, because there are almost 700 people who will live with discomfort, pain and horrible deformations for the rest of their lives. People were blinded. They kissed their husband or wife and children goodbye that morning and when they are released from hospital, they will come home blind. There are many who had their limbs blown right off their bodies. Their families will be living with a double, maybe triple or quadruple amputee – people who may have run down the steps in order to jump on that train – for the rest of their lives. There are people – doubtless some of them the fanciable crumpet Jonathan refers to in another post, who have steel shards and shards of thick glass embedded in their faces; and others whose faces were burned. I don’t mean any disrespect by saying “it’s not just the dead”. There were a few lucky ones – thank god for small mercies – but including the horrible figure of 54 murdered, there are around 700 people and all their families who will never reconnect with the life they were living on the early morning of 7th July.
Verity, I wish I shared your confidence in an outbreak of rationality among the establishment, but I don’t.
So, do you have any thoughts on how to help them along ?
Off we go again Fouci,
We are not interested in the BNP,we are telling you that the left is disgraced,they stands naked before us as the unprincipled moral bankrupts and liars that they are.Has it not penetrated your head yet, over fifty people have been murdered and you still play party politics.
The world has changed,we never forgave Chamberlain,we will not forgive the left.
Hello Peter. Knuckle dragging was a phrase used by Perry. How do you know I ‘regard the cold blooded murder of more than 50 people as nothing,just something that comes with multiculturalism,a little teething problem on the way to utopia?’ I don’t know how you could infer that from any of my posts. I assure you, you couldn’t be more wrong.
Hello, fFreddy – I certainly don’t think sanity is going to break out all over the cabinet room, that’s for sure. But I think ordinary citizens are very angry. They have been aware for a long time that Blair’s agenda and the agenda of the far left was wrong, but they allowed themselves to be pummelled into subservience and toe-ing the line because they feared they were alone.
Now they know there is a great surge of anger. It is a while since I lived in Britain, so you would be in a better position than me to know what routes are currently available – but blogs – including leftish blogs, are full of this right now and there are some surprising positions being taken. The well-regarded leftish blog Harry’s Place, linked to here, is one of them and they accept comments. Even the BBC site’s rigged Have Your Say has been running some comments reflective of the amount of anger there is floating around just now.
Finding a way to harness that anger against those responsible for governing this country is up to you. But it’s important that Blair is aware that people know he has tried to sell Britain down the river, to the EU and to the Muslim immigrants with their dishonest voting practices. You might want to find out, via the net, which Labour MPs voted against the identity card bill. Not everyone in the Labour party is an admirer of Tony Blair’s grotesque ego. In fact, targetting Labour MPs who don’t like Tony Blair may not be a bad idea.
The “Dog that didn’t bark” Michael,you didn’t mention the murderers,but how you campaigned against the BNP,diversity celebration et al. “Did a bomb go off somewhere?”
You delineated your concerns,which were not immediately,the fact that there is a death cult abroad in the country which has claimed lives,which according to those who speak for it are willing and able to spill more blood.
Yes the political classes should shut the fuck up!
Foucault
Dunno why, but John Stuart Mill’s famous quote comes to mind:
Hello again Peter. ‘Other than in a few shitholes like Oldham, most British folks really do value, or at least accept, the pluralistic tolerant society that largely prevails in these ‘Sceptred Isles’.’ Perry’s comment initiated my posts. Perhaps Oldham should be exempted. Perhaps Perry should have written ‘Other than a few contributors to Samizdata, most British folks really do value, or at least accept, the pluralistic tolerant society that largely prevails in these ‘Sceptred Isles’.’
Michael,
Tolerance, to paraphrase Lenin,Who,Whom? Glodwick hasn’t been razed,there are no armed brownshirts on the streets,but there is sure as hell a lot of dead and maimed people in London.
Glodwick.. nice touch that. Earlier I endorsed the phrase ‘Let’s make terrorism history’ and Verity sniffed that perhaps Kate Moss could click her fingers for it. Perhaps she could. Perhaps Salman Rushdie could, or a lot of recently elected Iraqi politicians. The Lebanese and Israelis too. Many British and American servicemen and women would endorse it right now. I am sure George W and the much maligned (in these posts) Tony Blair would back it (in fact, they seem part of only a small handful of world leaders who actually seem to see the need to do something about it). But for Verity to say ‘The Islamics are whiners, cry babies, malcontents, underachievers, passengers and trouble makers’ and Perry to refer Oldham as a shithole really doesn’t take us anywhere. It insults people. It lacks respect. It is brownshirt language. Are these the libertarian values Samizdata aspires to? But what about the ‘them’ you say, the bombers who killed ‘us’ (an us that included the ‘diverse’ nationalities, including muslims, some of these posts take exception to). Well, we’re better than them. We’re better than them because we don’t accept the exclusive, totalitarian poison they want to foist on us. And we will fight them, and we will win.
The phrase,”Let’s make terrorism History” is so facile as to be suitable for a breakfast cereal commercial.
One question ,How?
I should tell you Michael I know Oldham as well as you,enough to know Saddleworth is about as much in Oldham as Windsor Great Park is in the East End of London.
Accepted. It is utopian. But we can stive to eliminate islamo-fascism. Spreading democracy and women’s rights in muslim societes seems a good way forward. Clamping down on the fascist imams and sects domestically needs ramping up too. Perhaps now the legal and media establishment will view such clamp downs more sympathetically.
Saddleworth is in Oldham! It’s only two miles from the town centre!
Only because of the amalgamation of towns under Heath and the like,the complete cock up of the Greater Manchester conurbation.Two miles is a long way in these one horse towns
I’m with Perry on Oldham,most of the local councils have made shitholes out of the Northern Mill Towns,Oldham and Rochdale particularly are great wens on the Pennines
michael, “Tony Blair would back a ‘make terrorism history’ campaign?” Like, he’d wear a plastic bracelet?
Do you really think so? Think about it. Do you really think so?
Given that so much of the Za-NuLab constituency is … errr … accommodating to terrorists and “postal voters” while according them all the tax-payer derived benefits of the welfare state paid into by Britons with jobs.
Don’t count on Tone and Imelda. For anything. Tone and Imelda have their future as god-king and god-queen of Europe (comes with own Air Force One) or head of a big new shiny BLAIR THINK TANK in Washington. Either way, they are not going to rile anyone who may put a pound in their pocket.
Michael hits his brow and comes up with: But we can stive to eliminate islamo-fascism. Spreading democracy and women’s rights in muslim societes seems a good way forward.
How about doing it in England?
We hadn’t thought of eliminating Islamofascism before, over the last 50 years? This is, like, a new idea no one had thought of before? Given the murders of young Islamic girls and/or shipping them off to Pakistan to marry a first cousin who will then come back as a proud bridegroom (with a British passport) who can’t speak English and will be dependent on his “wife” to get him through Immigration, and will, of course, have so much to contribute “culturally”. When he has a daughter, he will have her illegally sexually mutilated so she will be a saleable wife to one of his ilk who would be prepared to leave the beauty of Pakistan and come to Britain as a loving groom.
Give me an effing break. Britain is giving its country away to swill. And no, in this particular instance, I am not referring to Tone ‘n’ Imelda.
And we’re going to “strive” to do it? Reality check here, Michael: It is our country. We made the laws. We don’t have to “strive” to catch people breaking these laws. We catch ’em without much effort, given their level of stupidity against the rest of the criminal community, try ’em, bang ’em up. Break the law. Bang up. No “striving”.
The tide has turned against you and is washing above your ankles. In a few days, it will get deeper.
Verity-I think you can bet your last dollar the leftists and socialists in alliance with the islamists will try every and all means of hanging guilt and ‘root causes’ onto the British people in attempts to deflect the anger.
Will they succeed? Time will tell.
TWG
TWG,
Yes we have heard a great deal about the BNP but nothing about the equally dangerous SWP,its front Respect and the ties to the MAB.
Foucault’s Buddy:
Instead of whinging and moaning about the perceived level of anti-Muslim sentiment here, shouldn’t you be looking at the root causes that lead the commenters to hold such views?
I mean, that’s what we’re told we’re supposed to do every time there’s a
terroristmilitant attack.Peter – Here I am on the night shift, holding the fort until sunrise for you guys … Peter and Ted both allude to how strange it is that these shits killed and maimed 754 people, and there are people on Samizdata busying themselves writing in condemning the BNP.
Could someone Google the figures on how many people the BNP has killed and maimed, please? Over the last 50 years or so?
The Muslim shitholes on the London Transport system killed and maimed 754 people and their families within four minutes.
How fucking perverted are you, Foucault’s asshole? You’re included in this question, Michael from Oldham.
I’m seeing double! The editor of The Melbourne Age aka The Peoples’ Daily, who was once editor of the Scottish Sunday Herald, couldn’t stand the fact that freed Australian hostage Douglas Wood described his Iraqi insurgent captors as ‘arseholes’.
Insensitive? Insensitive??
Am I detecting a common thread here? I see young Michael whining about Verity “lacking respect” because she is railing against the special conditions Muslims have managed to extract for themselves under the guise of tolerance and social cohesiveness. We saw some of that cohesion last Thursday, but moving right along… Michael. Really. Must you and the likes of Andrew Jaspan be so effete? Can’t you understand that your feeble, facile concessions and attempts at appeasement are absolutely not what people are demanding from their government post 7/7? Apologists for islam are *not* in demand right now.
Most people in Britain realise that just because our enemies are Muslims, that does not mean all (or even most) Muslims are our enemies. Most British folks really do value, or at least accept, the pluralistic tolerant society that largely prevails.
Micahel,
Most people in Britain no longer take anyone on face value,we do not know who is friend or foe,
It is similar to the Brady and Hindley cas,where innocent little children were murdered and buried on Saddleworth Moor.
Everyone feels besmirched by this,oddly it isn’t only the Islamic terrorists who have caused anger,it is the halfwitted liberal left Pollyannas telling us all is well.
You do not know what proportion of the Muslim community condones,condemns or even abets the aims and aspiration of the Islamist terrorists.
..and Michael we don’t want you to tell us,we want them to tell us,an altogether reasonable request of our fellow citizens.
It is obvious from the high number of casualties that you do not have a clue who or what the problem is,all Muslims may not be terrorists but all terrorists have been Muslims.It is simply time for those who are not supporters of terror to make their position most emphatic.
Hello again Peter. You may notice the last set of words I entered were not mine. They were lifted from Perry de Havilland’s original entry.
James Waterton, quoting the Editor of the Melbourne Age:
So what’s all that whinging and wining over Gitmo about?! Hoisting the left by their own petard just becomes easier.
—————————————————
Michael
What’s your point in repeatedly quoting Perry? It was aimed at Blair, Blair, Livingstone, Paddick et al, not at the population in general. Most people in the west are tolerant to a point, but those of us with a single moral bone in our bodies find that tolerance stopping short of blowing away hundreds of civilians on public transport.
The important question regards just how many Islamic immigrants support terror, either openly and tacitly. If you think that a ‘tiny minority’ supports terrorism then you’re kidding yourself that you know Islam in Britain. At the least it’s a large minority, in my view probably more.
I think it was Daniel Pipes who once said that behind closed doors there are no moderate muslims. The scales are falling from the eyes now, Michael, and you on the dhimmi left have been found out. Your post war multiculturalism has been exposed for the disaster we’ve long said it is. A period of silence from the lot of you would be welcome.
Micael,
Thanks,
I shall continue this dialogue with Mr de Havilland,no point in talking to the “oily rag when one can talk to the engineer” as they say up here.
Michael
One of the most worrisome aspects of the refusal of the Establishment to acknowledge and deal with the growing number of extremist young Muslim men, is the radicalisation of a previously apathetic non-religious majority.
The stiff upper lip is rapidly giving way to anger.
Not everyone is as forgiving and as tolerant as you.
If it happens again I guarantee that there will be burning Mosques. It is amazing to me that the Finsbury Park one is still standing…talk about restraint by Londoners. Pretty damn amazing and very impressive.
We are going to demand that our ruling elite now keep their side of the bargain,that of defending the British people.Standing supinely by whilst fanatics demand Sharia law and gibber hate is not acceptable.
The laws of the land must be applied equally to all
Not according to Ian Blair and Brian Pillock. Blair said the overriding concern of London was that the police be “representative” of all the different “communities”. (Since when did a city stop being a community? When did all these little specialist, freelance communities pop up?) He wants his officers to represent “the Muslim community” – of course! the most important, most coddled, most considered “community” in Britain, the black community – hey Ian – don’t you think that is a very racist comment? Do you mean the “West Indian community”, or the Somali community? The Muslim “community” from other African countries? How about the Francophone black community? Tut tut! And the Polish community. Yes, I’m serious, he listed the new EU countries. How about the “illegal immigrant and failed asylum seeker community”? Are they going to get “representation” on the police force? A few illegals so the illegals they catch – oh wait a minute! catching illegals is not in their brief ….
What a segmented society the destructived socialists have created!!!
I have a better idea! Why not just apply the law equally to everyone and not worry about the ethnic make-up of the police, because it is the same law that is being applied for the same crimes and misdemeanours?
Or is he implying that he’s going to instruct officers illegally to apply foreign laws that apply in these people’s home communities? Like, killing children for witchcraft is not a crime in some “communities” so be extra tolerant of such murders in London – wink wink nod nod know what I mean? Know what I mean?
Yes, I wondered why Michael was quoting Perry as though he was reading off stone tablets brought down from the mountain. Clearly, he had misunderstood what Perry wrote.
Now is the time – the exact moment – to pressure Blair and every single MP who has shown signs of support for this mythical multiculturalism. Now is the time to say no at your child’s school and say you will not be allowing him to make Deepawali cards during school time any more. (I love the Indians and India, but there are better uses to put school time.) Now is the time to be extremely rude and bullying to the bullies who work in local councils emphasizing “diversity”. Now is the time to show your contempt, via email, to the cabinet and your own MP for what they have allowed to happen to a country that in 40 years has gone from being one of the two most law abiding countries in the world (Japan) to this.
The backlash has begun and you can keep it up. If you let it die down without effect, you are finished. You will never have more righteous anger than right now.
Verity,
The Russell square bomber Lyndsay Jamal was a Jamaican with and English wife,one can quite understand his outrage over Iraq.Coincidentally both were converts to Islam.
Scott, over at The Daily Ablution, reports that the Guardian reporter Dilzipan or whatever his name is – can’t be bothered to check – until last year worked for publication of an Arab terrorist outfit, Hizb Ut Tahrir. This is from their mission statement: “We maintain that the ‘Clash of Civilisations’ is not only inevitable but imperative.” They don’t seem to have got Tony’s happy clappy multi culti message.
Don’t be dismissive. You should listen to what these people say, because they mean it. Don’t be complacent and dismissive, saying, “Oh, these things don’t happen in England.” Because they do.
Verity,
There needs to be an investigation into the multiple failure of Ian Blair’s force.Was it because the anointed one has told them to back off investigating a core part of Zanu-Lab’s voting base,or was it because key members of security were at Glenagles,or that Ian Blair is not a policeman but a PC social worker?
Ian Blair may be loyal to his master but Tony will throw him to the wolves when the incompetence and double dealing of this atrocity is investigated
When the IRA set the Old Bailey bomb and all the others I don’t remember hearing calls to burn down the Irish embassy or boycott Guiness yet at that time not all Irish were terrorists, but all terrorists were Irish. So why do we now have the anti-Islamic crap?
If you want to talk about the damage religion has done then do so – don’t pick on decent people simply because a small number of their co-religionists are murderers.
Why, for example did Ian Blair state there were no suicide bombers and Brian paddick deny there was any link between Islam and terrorism?
Blair – Ian – is an arrogant, hectoring little prat who is not a policeman. He does not have the policeman’s mentality of wanting to conserve law and order. Like his sidekick Brian Pillock, he seems to find chaos rather bracing. He’s going to be enjoying a lot more of it soon. I just do not believe this was a single incident.
Someone was behind those four young morons. This wasn’t spontaneous. Someone encouraged them and planned it for them. That person will still be alive and planning the next one. If I were a Londoner, I would be terrified that Ian Blair and Brian Pillock were in charge of law enforcement. You are right, there should be an investigation of the multiple failures of the Met. But who would order such an investigation? Za-NuLab itself? I think not.
Who would demand such an investigation? Michael Howard? I think not.
Ian – had the IRA killed 241 marines? Had the IRA bombed the WTC, killing over 3,000? Had the IRA bombed a nightclub in Bali killing over 300 innocent people dancing? Did the IRA take over the American embassy in Teheran? Did the IRA send suicide bombers into Israel on almost a daily basis? Did the IRA bomb HSBC headquarters in Turkey? Did the IRA derail trains in India, killing hundreds?
Did the IRA send suicide bombers into the London Underground – or anywhere else for that matter?
ian: dear God, are you a half-wit, or are you looking to move up to that exalted level from being a simple arsehole?
The IRA (though there were plenty of own goals) weren’t suicide bombers. They did have some semblance of a national agenda with a clearly defined aim and would negotiate. And mostly they gave warnings, of a kind.
All we know of the islamofascists is that they want to, er, kill everyone.
That’s right, bozo. Including sugary sweet people like you. Oh, and other Muslims.
The problem is Ian that before these scumbags murdered and maimed over 700 people,they were regarded as decent also.
Now we don’t know who is and who isn’t, perhaps they could give us a sign.
anon makes a good point above. The appeasers will not be favoured. They will not be regarded as “friends” and spared the wrath of the arseholes of righteousness, and those do not understand this are living in a little socialist balloon. The Islamists do not believe in “diversity”.
Here are the facts. Well, one fact, really: if you have not submitted to the will of allah, you’re toast. Doesn’t matter how many mint tea afternoons you’ve given for the local youth, or how many outraged letters you’ve sent to the local papers regarding “the lack of tolerance” among the native British. If you haven’t submitted to the will of their god, you are insulting that diety.
If you are extremely polite and submissive to the hierarchy, you may achieve dhimmi status, in which you will have to pay a special tax – jizya – and have basically no civil liberties, and no alcohol or lap dancing clubs, but you will be allowed to live.
Oh, and Tessa Jowell should get used to her husband having three more “wives”. And here’s a friendly reminder, if you are a woman and you commit adultery – or are suspected of committing adultery, you will be buried up to your neck and stoned to death. This is the shariah they wish to impose.
Marriagable age for girls is reduced to nine.
There is so much ignorance about Islam. Read about it. They are not like us but with a different religion.
The biochemist has been arrested in Cairo.I’ll bet he wishes he was going to be interrogated by the evil British.
‘They are not like us’ – ‘they’ are human beings, very much like us. Next you’ll be calling them sons of monkeys and pigs.
What a hoot! Bet he wishes he was going to be interrogated by Brian Pillock!
Yes Lily,We Infidels had better watch what we say.
Lily – How many Islamic countries have you lived in?
Anon-Uhm, actually the muslims do want to negotiate, just like the IRA, except their aims are rather more expansive. It involves our complete submission to Islam, naturally.
Bleargh.
TWG
Wobbly, what chills the blood is the number of people who simply do not believe this. They think if everyone is just nice and “respects” Islam and another religion, everything will be fine. For some rollicking, rolling in the aisles comedy, go to the Beeb’s Have Your Say, where one little ignorant jerk after another posts along the line of: “When are we [meaning other people; not the enlightened poster] going to learn that the Muslims just want to be left in peace? If they wish to wear special clothes in schools and pray five times a day in the classroom, this is one of the rewards of living in a multicultural society!”
I cannot speak for ordinary Muslims in Britain, but definitely their leaders – who they follow and whose rants they believe come directly from their god – have absolutely no interest in co-existence. The agenda is conquest, through the sword if the constant criticisms,
whining and special pleading don’t work.
BTW, Lily, “sons of pigs and monkeys” is what the mullahs shout in the mosques, referring to Jews. I have never heard a white person use similar language to describe a Muslim.
Zowie! An intelligent and rational Arab journalist nails it (via Melanie Phillips). What he writes is sensible and well-oberved and is utterly condemnatory of the British government’s laissez-faire attitude to terrorists since the ’90s. (Link) It’s time to consider impeachment proceedings against Tony Blair.
I didn’t say that the terrorists who were responsible in London were decent people. I said that the majority of Muslims were decent people who should not be comndemmed because a minority of their co-religionists were murderers..
As ever the discussion here is getting mired in anonymous insults (Anon – to quote Verity you are supposed to give your e-mail address!) as a substitute for thinking.
Ian says – the majority of Muslims were decent people
Proof, please. We have no evidence to that effect. We have the evidence that whole neighbourhoods often know who is likely one day to walk into a crowded place with a bomb about his person; they know who the violent mullahs are and, speaking their language, know exactly what they’re preaching.
But the vast, vast majority of them do not turn these people in. Why? Because they’re working in their diety’s cause, of course. Most of these people would not perform a radical deed themselves, I grant you, but at the same time, they don’t grass.
I am aware that some do, and it is thanks to them (and brave infiltrators) that the police are as well-informed as they are. But high numbers of them are complicit by their silence.
Ian – If I am the anon referred to, let me say this: I live among Muslims in a town in Yorkshire, I have had next-door neighbours who are Muslim. The other day I went to the aid of an old Muslim man who was afraid of a pair of wandering dogs (I wasn’t too happy about that myself) but we survived and smiled.
I am no bleeding-heart liberal living in some cloud-cuckoo land who never mixes with Muslims. I see Muslim youths behaving badly, just as I see Twoccers, mostly (but not always) white youths, racing stolen cars.
I see Muslim girls cover their heads because they are told to, but they often wear it with style so good for them. I passed a male Muslim youth a few weeks ago who tried to spit on the pavement as I walked past (alas he can’t have practised much – he sort of dribbled down his front).
I have been called White Trash by a young Muslim kid when I walked through a local park they regard as “theirs”, but so it goes. I have talked to Muslim families doing their best with their lives and raising kids as best they can – even if they despair about the way teenagers are.
I would defend a Muslim if he needed it and have done. I will not defend those Muslims who seek to kill.
Your IRA “link” was weak and, basically, stupid.
I also choose to remain anonymous as I believe is my privilege – though my socialist utopia friends might want to remove that privilege in some new anti-terror legislation. Fear? No, I am not afraid, but I do not want to enter into personal correspondence with people who imagine they think.
A touching story anon. You talk of your personal relationships with individuals within your community and some of your Muslim neighbours. A sweet story.
It reminds me a little of when I was doing my hons degree in Leeds about the time of the Salman Rushdie affair, when as a student I saw with my own eyes the beardy Yorkshire Muslims demonstrating in the streets, chanting for the death of Rushdie and book burning Nazi style. So much for the “Peaceful Religion”. Yeah right. Peaceful religion my ass. Pull the other one, it’s got bells on it.
Anyway, as a young student I got to know one of the teaching staff on my degree course who just so happened to be an ardent Communist and during conversation would often bang on about how capitalism was wicked and doomed to fail and Wall Street would soon fall and the “Workers of the World” would unite and create a global Marxist Utopia, blah blah blah. It must have come as a REAL shock to the poor bugger to discover his Marxist Communist dreams ended when the Soviet Union collapsed shortly after in 1991. So much for his dreams of communist world dommination.
Still, a lovely guy never the less. I really liked him. Sweet, considerate, funny, well mannered and very likable in an odd sort of way. A STRONG and ardent believer in Communism. Nice as this Communist was, I wouldn’t want the Bastards running MY country. You can kiss goodbye to freedom and democracy and say hello to dictatorship and autocracy if they ever got into power. The very same can be said for our Islamic brethren. Sweet old men and young girls in stylish hijabs apart, if Islam ever became demographically and politically powerful in these Sceptred Isles, our freedoms and liberties would come under SERIOUS threat from the encroachment of the dictatorial theocracy of Islam, Dhimmitude and Sharia Law with all its misogynistic, intolerant, homophobic and reactionary practices.
There are 50 or so Islamic countries in the world. How many are perceived as TRUE democracies?…. 50 Muslim nations and only the democracy in Turkey to show for it all. What does that tell you about the compatibility of Islam and democracy? I know what it tells me. And I am sure there are many Islamic (dictatorships) out there full of sweet old men and nice little girls in hijabs.
As for the phenomena of mass Islamic immigration (aka the encroaching Islamicization of Europe), this is a real problem the indigenous people of Holland are going to face in 15 to 20 years time, and may culminate in a protracted form of civil war. By the year 2020, half the population of Holland, 18 years and under will be the descendants of Muslim immigrants. A mass of Muslim people with no historical or emotive attachment to Hollands’ history, culture or its very liberal and tolerant way of life. What will happen to Hollands’ democratic freedoms, its secular and liberal way of life when half the population reads the Koran and believes in Sharia Law and doesn’t give a ‘tinkers fuck’ for the Dutch way of life. You will end up with a schizophrenia society completely at odds with itself. There will be no Kumbaya multiculti, pie-in-the-sky social harmony. There will be a feeling of deep distrust, hatred and civil unrest that may very well lead to civil war. The “Clash of Civilizations” that could happen in Holland in our very lifetimes would ripple out all over Europe, particulary where there are large Muslim immigrant populations. Civil war in France would most probably follow. The French take their attachment to “Libertaire, Egalitaire, Fraternitaire” very seriously and they won’t take any shit from Ahmed and his backward-assed Sharia.
The stupid “politically correct” Dutch are going to learn that too much tolerance can hurt a country.
What has happened in London last week on the Tube is probably the beginning of what is to come. My guess is that over the next couple of decades, Europe is probably going to experience a lot of Islamist terrorism. It will not be enough for the likes of Germany and France to have stayed out of Iraq. They cannot expect to escape Islamofascist judgment. In their eyes we are all degenerate, godless and decadent “cockroach-infidel” Westerners, ripe for the wrath of Allah. Where next? Paris, Rome, Barcelona, Amsterdam?
Samsung, you missed Malaysia. They’re definitely a ‘good’ muslim nation. Just don’t listen at their words, but look to their actions, because they tend to bluster about Western oppression but quietly go about arresting their radicals.
The youth of Malaysia are becoming more and more liberal, and while a small number of them do succumb to the extremists creed, a far greater number love their pop songs, looking at beautiful scantily clad(for them!) women, consuming alcohol, and other things which are contrary to Islam.
If Southeast Asia(Malaysia and Indonesia) can be secured of terms of Islamic moderacy and democracy, then a big portion of the war is already won.
TWG
Samsung – I enjoyed your post until the end, where you appeared to assign Britain’s role in Iraq as a cause for the Islamofascist terrorist activity in Britain. These deeds of suicide bombing and terror have been happening with great regularity since the early 80s but they were scattered and appeared to be random, until the WTC captured our real attention and people put two and two together and reached a conclusion. This attempt to cow the West has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq. It’s to do with the great Satan. Us. They are incensed that we live our lives according to our own lights and not the commands of their god. They want to force us to “submit”.
Forget Iraq. They don’t even like Iraq. Or respect Iraq. Iraq is a secular, not an Islamic, republic (although the people are Islamic; but it’s not the state religion). Don’t believe the Iraq bullshit.
Yes, the Dutch are stupid and they did it to themselves with their vaunted “tolerance”. Home. Roost. Chickens. The French do indeed take their liberté, egalité, fraternité very seriously and they absolutely hate the Muslims in their country. It wouldn’t take much …
Yes, Wobbly, Malaysia is OK, so far. But with the departure of Mahathir, I wouldn’t count on it staying that way unless the new PM is very strong. I like Malaysians, but I’d keep an eye on them. Indonesia, I don’t agree at all. They’re very volatile, stupid people.
The Wobbly Guy, Jemaah Islamiyah, the extremist Islamist terrorist group with connections to to Al-Qaeda, won about 40% of the vote in the Indonesian spring elections of 2004. This is the same organization who conducted 50 bomb attacks across Indonesia over the past five years and also conducted Bali Island bombing that killed more than 200 “Western Infidels” in a night club. These bastards got 40% of the vote in the elections. That’s a LOT of support from the voting electorate. Don’t hold your breath for the emergence of an enlightened democracy any time soon in Indonesia.
As for Malasia, you can talk about your religion freely, just don’t try to convert. Last I heard, it is a criminal offence under Sharia Law in Malasia to renounce Islam or convert to another faith. You do that and you go to jail.
Besides, I think the real problem with Islam doesn’t lie with Muslim societies in South East Asia. The problem lies with the Islam in the Arab Middle East, the very birth place of this bloody religion. To the best of my knowledge, Islam is a mixture of four basic components, Religion, Politics, the Arabian language, and Arab Nationalism. Islam simply revolves around the Arab Middle East. It is principly the Arabs’ religion.
WHEN young Suadi-Arabian women acquire sexual equality and the right to vote, and can freely walk unescorted around the city of Mecca, wearing whatever they like, be they short skirts and high heels, and smoke a cigarette whilst drinking a cold beer in a mixed gender cafe. THEN we will have won this so called “war”. But as I said before… don’t hold your breath.
“Samsung – I enjoyed your post until the end, where you appeared to assign Britain’s role in Iraq as a cause for the Islamofascist terrorist activity in Britain.”
– Verity.
Sorry Verity, I think you have misunderstood me. I don’t assign the bombings in London to the role of Britain in Iraq. I happen to think this problem is much more complex than that. The point that I was trying to make is that a lot of people, paricularly those opposed to the war in Iraq will blame Iraq for the bombings. The point that I was making is that despite the fact that certain countries in Europe keeping out of the Iraq conflict does not automatically mean that they will be immune to further future acts of Islamofascist terrorisism. In the eyes of these medieval, ass-backward Bin Laden wannabees, a Parisian or a Berliner is just as much a godless “Western Infidel”, ripe for murder in the name of Allah as any Londoner is.
So Oldham is a shithole ?
I would be happy to pay your travel expenses to come and debate the proposition with a few friends here in Oldham.
Martini protocol.
Anytime any Place.
Eddy, face it, you’re in denial or maybe you just need new specs or omething cos by any objective measure, Oldham really is a shithole. Don’t take it personally, its just a fact.
When I was in London some time ago, I found the people really friendly and nonconformist.