Sir Bob “Make Poverty History” Geldof is getting the vapours over the fact that tickets for his various supposed poverty-relief events have been put up for sale on that symbol of dark, rampant capitalism, eBay. In particular, he seems all upset that a big corporation like eBay should make any money from such a highminded event.
Horsefeathers, is all I can say. eBay, in my view, contributes vastly more to the sum total of human happiness and welfare than that preening stage army of hasbeens, wannabees and well-intentioned nitwits that have clustered around Sir Bob. As has already been recounted in detail here, Sir Bob Geldof is a man of infuriating contradictions, able to talk with piercing clarity and lack of cant about the corruption of African governments and yet also willing and able to spout the cheap pieties that seem to accompany many a post-colonial guiltfest such as Live8.
If Africa’s economy were run with the same brio, dash and entrepreneurial brilliance of eBay, Sir Bob and his ilk would have to spend a little more time on what they supposedly do best.
UPDATE: thinking this through in the light of watching Geldof on the television, I can certainly applaud his desire to steer as much revenue to the poor of the world as possible but there seems no awareness on the part of the Live 8 crowd that what Africa needs is precisely the sort of business acumen of which eBay is a modern example.
UPDATE 1: eBay has blocked sales of such tickets on its pages, according to the BBC.
Damn right. At the end of the day, Geldof is just another (wellmeaning) hack blessed with an unusually large soapbox.
Actually, “hack with an unusually large soapbox” sums up pretty much every crusading figure in the entertainment industry.
dude:
check out the June 14 post on my blog – re: Rosie O’Donnell. it’ll make you laugh – or cry.
ironically, for lefties, everything comes down to selfishness and power. their lip-service to tolerance and understaning is all just a front.
-nikita demosthenes
Suffering, and because they are taken seriously by people like Tony Blair, who’s never seen a celebrity he failed to invite for a rolling meeting on his couch – or maybe it’s a meeting on his rolling couch – anyway, they assume this mantle of guru to the world. They want to direct not just their own lives and show, but everything.
Geldof doesn’t want people buying tickets on eBay because that is not what he intended to happen. So they shouldn’t do it! It’s his party, goddammit!
The television production company co-founded by Sir Bob Geldof, the musician orchestrating next month’s Live 8 concerts, has reported a near 400 per cent jump in pre-tax profits for its most recent financial year.
The company will be involved in Live 8 through its events division, providing two of the big screens in Hyde Park, according to a company spokesman, “on a not-for-profit basis”.
Ten Alps, which Sir Bob co-founded six years ago with Alex Connock and Des Shaw, made profits before tax of £628,000 on dramatically increased revenues of £34.75 million in the 12 months to the end of this March. Last year, Ten Alps posted pre-tax profits of just £126,000 on revenues of £16.734m.
Staff numbers have shot up to 152 from 92.
Sir Bob is a director, minority shareholder and occasional presenter.
Times 13 June
Well, all you capitalists and free-marketeers out there, here’s a little newsflash just reported in The Telegraph’s breaking news … eBay has agreed to remove Live 8 tickets from its site.
How repulsive.
eBay charges a listing fee and small extra charges for optional features.Whilst they take a percentage of the final selling fee it is possible to list for a few pence.
This of course is a private transaction between the owner of the ticket,the buyer and eBay.
There was nothing to stop Geldof from approaching eBay to see if they would do a free charity auction.Given the politically correct philosphy of eBay he would probably been successful.
Peter, thanks for that bit of info.
They should have told Geldof that, whereas he was choosing to run a non-commercial venture, they weren’t. What is it with these people?
Verity, another point is that the charities could have easily banned resale of the tickets unless any moneys went to their charity. eBay is actually pretty fastidious about these things, such as its policy on porn, etc.
I’m told that Sir Bob was just on television, suggesting that crackers have a go at eBay to punish them for their evil. Did anyone see this?
No, but given the Nazi-esque component in political correctness, it does not surprise me in the least.
I was considering bidding on a ticket simply so I could wazz on it when I won. I would then send it, sans stamp, to Mr Geldof.
If someone has a ticket but cannot attend and somene else wishes to obtain a ticket,what is wrong with a simple transaction between the two parties?
The Rockin’Codgers get the audience they want everyone is a winner,and after all Bobby got a knighthood last time,it’ll be the House of Cronies next.
Most interesting Saint Bob getting sued for royalties. BBC
Sued
If Bob Geldof asked all the crowds he wants to go to Edinburgh and his concerts to wave banners with, and keep shouting
BRING BACK DDT
he would almost certainly do more good for Africa than any other message he was trying to get across.
Using DDT is, of course, the best method of killing mosquitoes that transmit malaria. America and Europe both used it and with malaria eliminated . . . well . . . “Pull up the ladder, Jack, I’m all right.”
I see eBay have folded, showing that they care as much about principles as any other company. Good to know that they will cave in to every celebrity that calls them rude names.
Milo
BBC News at Ten has just broadcast Geldof saying that people should hack eBay, screw it up, bid absurd amounts, whatever.
As Johnathan said, Africa needs what ebay does, it needs it’s spirit and nerve. Geldof’s approach is “I don’t like what you do and I can’t control you so I’ll shut you down.” The irony that this is the approach which landed Africa where it is probably won’t hit home.
eBay earlier expressed their position yesterday in a statement: “The reselling of charity concert tickets is not illegal under UK law, so Live 8 tickets are allowed to be resold on eBay.co.uk. As we do not wish to profit from this event, we have offered to make a donation to the Live 8 organisers at least equivalent to the fees we collect from the sale of Live 8 tickets.
From an earlier statement by eBay a perfectly libertarian stance
If anyone wants an interesting take og greed, Bobby is being sued by his old band, see Sued link above
“We are allowing the tickets because we live in a free market where people can make up their own minds about what they would like to buy and sell. A ticket to the Live 8 concert is no different from a prize won in a raffle run by another charity and what the winner chooses to do with it is up to them.
“eBay believes it is a fundamental right for someone to be able to sell something that is theirs, whether they paid for it or won it in a competition.”
Pete_London hit it squarely. You are right and Jonathan is right: Africa needs the eBays and the Googles and the Lastminute.coms and any other ideas that anyone can think of and has the energy to see through to get it up and running.
Bob Geldof’s attitude is Blairesque and intolerant. “This isn’t what I intended should happen with my important plan, so no one should have the freedom to proceed with this because I didn’t say they could. This is the problem once other people start having thoughts.”
If anyone wants to BID NOW
Some very good comments here. I’m puzzled as to how selling one of these tickets on ebay does anything to take away money for the poor. It seems to me all it does is transfer the ticket to someone who really wants to go to the concert but wasn’t lucky enough to win a lottory, and it gives money to someone who values money more than going to the concert. It’s win, win, win.
Next to the link about this story on the Drudge Report is an article about the other Boomtown Rats suing Bob Geldof for royalties they say they’ve earned over the years. I don’t know about the merits of the suit, but when Bob Gedof accuses Ebay of “sick profiteering,” I’ll in turn assume the same of him.
Some very good comments here. I’m puzzled as to how selling one of these tickets on ebay does anything to take away money for the poor. It seems to me all it does is transfer the ticket to someone who really wants to go to the concert but wasn’t lucky enough to win a lottory, and it gives money to someone who values money more than going to the concert. It’s win, win, win.
Next to the link about this story on the Drudge Report is an article about the other Boomtown Rats suing Bob Geldof for royalties they say they’ve earned over the years. I don’t know about the merits of the suit, but when Bob Gedof accuses Ebay of “sick profiteering,” I’ll in turn assume the same of him.
Some very good comments here. I’m puzzled as to how selling one of these tickets on ebay does anything to take away money for the poor. It seems to me all it does is transfer the ticket to someone who really wants to go to the concert but wasn’t lucky enough to win a lottory, and it gives money to someone who values money more than going to the concert. It’s win, win, win.
Next to the link about this story on the Drudge Report is an article about the other Boomtown Rats suing Bob Geldof for royalties they say they’ve earned over the years. I don’t know about the merits of the suit, but when Bob Gedof accuses Ebay of “sick profiteering,” I’ll in turn assume the same of him.
Sorry, I didn’t mean for that to post three times- I was having a bit of computer trouble.
“I’m puzzled as to how selling one of these tickets on ebay does anything to take away money for the poor ..”
Scott says he is puzzled three times, so we know this to be true.
Scott- getting crass commercialism involved dilutes the purity of the intentions of the illuminati.
It would be interesting to see if Geldof has any liability for the money lost through having an auction cancelled. eBay will have a let ou clause, but the fact of the matter is the owner of the tickets had a legal contract which Geldof “spoiled” by his television statements and preasue on eBay.
I don’t know if the tickets expressly were issued on a strictly not for resale basis,but if that was the intention it should have stated the fact.
Geldof has been in the business long enough to know that scarce tickets have a high resale value.That is how the touts make thier money.
Peter, according to eBay, they got a lot of complaints from their customers that they were going to profit – how sickening!- from the sale of the tickets. It wasn’t just Geldof’s heavy fist.
Verity,
Until Geldof stirred them up most who use eBay didn’t even know tickets were for sale.eBay is so vast with so many different categories and sub-categories that unless you have a specific interest the likelihood of coming across anything accidentally is remote.Interestingly a search came up with only two vendors,one lot of tickets were bid over a million,so there was somebody extracting the urine.
I think Geldorf’s rant got eBay spammed
it’s all part of his marketing campaign – Bob wants as much publicity as possible for his concerts – a lot of people will benefit enormously from them – namely the sad old rockers and sir bob himself – there’s a good article in NYTimes but it’s requires registration – Musically Saving the World by kelefa Sanneh
As a Kenyan resident and Ebay member, I am rather pissed off with this entire affair. We need more Ebay and less Bob. We want trade and not aid. We want suits with suitcases filled with investment money, not scruffy singers with morality. We had the missionaries, a real mixed bag, and are not convinced that more morality is the answer.
I have posted my thoughts to Ebay, though I awoke this morning to find the decision already made. As a side note, in their drop down list of countries, they list Kenya as Kenya Coastal Republic, which is just silly. I had previously complained, as it buggers my mailling address, to no avail. In my mail this morning, I pointed out that it is in their own interest to get such basics right, as a small market is better than a small pissed of potential market that is not allowed to enter their real maililng address.
Ebay trotting out the “you’re free to sell anything” line is highly amusing if, like me, you’ve ever tried to sell a piece of Microsoft software there and watched it being taken down within 24 hours.
Kenzdawg, read the small print on the licence agreement, you don’t buy software from microsoft you are not allowed to sell it and microsoft doesn’t agree to supply you with a working product, you merely buy the oppurtunity to load it onto 1 hard disk and take your chances.
While it is certainly the case that Bob Geldof’s hubris almost exceeds his ignorance, the fact is that reselling these ‘tickets’ is unlibertarian. Bob Geldof owns this concert and he can _invite_ anyone he likes and refuse entry to anyone he dislikes. Bob has made it quite clear that he wishes to invite only those who won on the original lottery. They can either accept or decline their invitation, but they have no more right to sell their invitations to a third party without Bob’s approval than a guest you invite round to your house to dinner has the right to sell that invitation on to another without your approval.
These people are trading in things thay do not have legitimate title to and are consequently commiting fraud, from the point of view of libertarian theory any way.
I cannot fathom the failure of people like this Geldof to understand the link between poverty and wanton depression of the value of others’ property.
On reflection, yes I can. He’s mad. He’s as mad as a bag of sweeties on a hot day. Oh, and a tyrant with a God complex.
Still, that’s just Bob being Bob, as that mensch Midge Ure recently put it.
P.S. he’s also got appalling manners and if I was a government minister and he came into my office saying ‘fuck this’ and ‘fucking that’, I’d tell him to get lost (pace Geldof’s programme on single fathers, a completely different subject)
P.P.S. why did the ‘questionable content detector’ question my use of the words ‘swe*ts’? (since changed to ‘sweeties’)
Since we are constantly reminded (in those cases that come to court) of the problems caused by hackers to legitimate business, I wonder if anyone is going to suggest that the sainted Robert be questioned for his incitement to commit hackery!
He also described eBay’s actions as ‘just pimping’. Well, sir, you perform for money – what does that make you….?
No public figure would dare hold this Messiah to account.
Nice to see Ebay has suspended the accounts of those who place false high bids. They said they would play by Ebay rules when they voluntarily signed up, then did something else.
Interesting point of view, Paul, on the re-selling of invitations. I think it is a bit of stretch, given the generally understood nature of “tickets”, but I do accept that your strict interpretation is correct.
That said, I still think Bob is a nutter and I do not like his ideas.
eBay have suspended the accounts of visitors who placed impossibly high bids in an attempt to kill the sales.
Bidders actually enter into a legally binding contract when they bid on eBay.There is however a second chance for the underbidder if the highest bidder defaults.
As to the “party belongig to Geldof,I think it wil be found that the event is owned by a limited company.It would be interesting to see if the issuer of the tickets stipulated not for resale or not transferable.If they did not tough,they made a mistake.
If Africa’s economy were run with the same brio, dash and entrepreneurial brilliance of eBay they’d be having whip-rounds for us.
Kyuna makes some interesting points. Forget Bob Geldof and his sticking plaster! Let Africa trade with the EU. I keep banging on about this and no one ever replies, but it would be to everyone’s benefit.
It is sickening to see an entire continent excluded from trade with the Holy Brussels Empire for no reason other than unalloyed protectionism. African produce, not being so intensively farmed, will be tastier than that awful stuff they sell in Europe, and it will be cheaper. European farmers may go to the wall and have to sell their well-maintained (French farmers have a lot of leisure time) quaint farms to British families as holiday homes. And the Africans would be in with a chance to generate real revenues.
This exclusion of Africa is yet one more compelling reason for viewing the EU and everyone connected with it with absolute contempt.
Yes, but Mary Contrary, if we won’t give them access to our markets, how will we ever know?
“This exclusion of Africa is yet one more compelling reason for viewing the EU and everyone connected with it with absolute contempt.”
As if we really needed any more reasons…..!
Seriously, though, why doesn’t this ever get raised by the usual chorus of aid-beggers? Why do they constantly point the finger at what they see as USA protectionist measures (tariff quotas, etc) yet fall dumb when faced with the fact that their beloved EU is engaged in exactly the same thing (only arguably on an even bigger scale)..?
And it’s very nice to see all the little cyber-warriors who leapt into battle with the mighty corporation at their dim-witted leaders behest hoist by their own petard.
Kiddies, the advice of has-been rock stars on the subject of e-warfare should be taken with a large pinch of salt! Sometimes Goliath wins……….
JuliaM – Because the Holy Brussels Empire is a socialist construct, whereas those sickening Americans are capitalists! and they use up more than their share (as determined by a committee of anonymous dickheads in Brussels) of the earth’s natural resources and a large number of them are Christians and they give money to Israel and commit many other crimes against humanity.
Verity – “Let Africa trade with the EU. I keep banging on about this and no one ever replies, but it would be to everyone’s benefit”.
Speaking for myself, the point seems beyond dispute – which is why I personally have no replied to it.
For years I’ve been banging about it meself to anyone who’ll listen. You are not alone.
“Because the Holy Brussels Empire is a socialist construct, whereas those sickening Americans are capitalists!”
Hey, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc…. 😉
My personal yardstick – if the wide-eyed, earnest young student regaling me with tales of Western evil doesn’t also mention the fact that the EU is just as protectionist & the great UN has some frankly bizarre picks on it’s Human Rights Committee…..they are full of crap & unable to research their subject properly!
Stephen Pollard – stephenpollard.net – had an amazing post this morning (published in The Daily Mail), talking about the ethos – and he has personal experience in the very, very most exclusive hushed corridors of power – of the EU. The routine contempt for the citizens is amazing, because how did it happen that a small cadre of very bizarre people managed to become the unquestioned masters of 400m formerly free people? Once you read the first sentence, you will not not stop reading until you’ve finished it, I guarantee.
Excellent piece by Stephen Pollard, but I wouldn’t assume that ‘routine contempt for the citizens’ is limited to the EU.
Our local paper recently published a letter from a councillor in response to local residents’ claims that changing the name of their local library to that of a local dead dignitary without asking them was, well, a bit of a cheek. The letter went something like:
“Shut up! Who do you think you are to have an opinion?
We could have held an excercise to judge local opinion, but we’d already told his widow about this change, and you might have said ‘No’, and then where would we be..?
He did good works, you uneducated oafs! Shut up!”
Sadly no one on the local paper is a real journalist, so let this slip by without an editorial comment (to the effect of ‘What a complete dick, dear readers!!’).
(rant over).
Just an example of the fact that power corrupts, whether it’s a monster state like the EU, or a local (unchallenged) council thinking they have a god given right to do anything they think fit..
You do the argument against the towering lunatic arrogance of the EU and its ability to have a grave impact on the political and economic health of millions of people – not just the 400m in the EU, but the tens of thousands of African producers excluded from trade – by bringing in your little local Major Mannering by way of example.
Hmm. yes, numbers do trump it (him) – but it’s exactly the same type of arrogance, born from the same unchallenged position, no matter the scale….
The only point of the Live8 events, as far as I can see, is that one or two of the brighter sparks involved in the events might be susceptible to arguments for free trade when framed in a progressive way, rather as that great man, Richard Cobden, did in opposition to the Corn Laws a century and a half ago.
And bringing the thread back on track, it’s pretty much Geldof’s argument too – ‘I’m right on this subject because everyone (in my own immediate circle, of course) agrees with me & I get all the fawning publicity..’
Perhaps if our print & TV media challenged the utterings of these crusaders more often, we could all get some real work done on tackling the root issues.. Instead, it seems to be left to the fringe (blogs & minority channel documentaries) to combat assumptions & that’s sad.
Oh, pulleeeeeze – Bob Geldof is going to persuade the entrenched Brussels illuminati that they should abandon their own farmers (voters) to their fates and allow African producers to sell their produce to 400m people in the EU!
Bob Geldof is a feel-good factor who is being used as a tool to keep the continent from getting too discontended and demanding. “Look! We’re supporting a rebel – a rock star! – because we want to help Africa! See? We’re doing absolutely everything we can (sotto voce, “to preserve the status quo)!”
What they are not doing is dismantling the outrageous CAP. What they are not doing is allowing free trade. What they are not doing is taking down the vast structure of protectionism by which they buy votes and keep the peace. What they are not doing is according the Africans a fair chance to have a go at our markets.
“What we are doing, though, is throwing them some charity to show them how much we care.”
The G8 will be over soon enough, and everyone can stop pretending.
So what if some idiot wants to pay 1000$ for a ticket?
All this means is that Geldof gets extra publicity.
Verity –
You respond seriously to my flippantly-put by seriously-meant comment.
I entirely agree that compassion and self-interest each separately and together demand that Western nations open their markets to Africa, the rest of the Third World, and, well, Proxima Centauri too the moment the little green men show up and display any interest in opening trade.
However, consider this from an African’s point of view: the West is not opening its borders, so what is to be done now? Internal deregulation and liberalisation will not be as effective or as fast-acting as if they were accompanied by free international trade, but such policies are always better than the alternative. After all, the West got rich somehow in the first place, and it certainly wasn’t by driving other countries into poverty, as certain loony-lefties still believe. But all this is just so much orthodoxy on Samizdata, I think I’m boring the audience, so I’ll shut up now. Verity, all I meant to say is that I doubt there’s a cigarette paper’s worth of difference between us on this issue.
Peter writes:
As to the “party belongig to Geldof,I think it wil be found that the event is owned by a limited company.It would be interesting to see if the issuer of the tickets stipulated not for resale or not transferable.If they did not tough,they made a mistake.
They have not made a mistake, the tickets were indeed sold with the stipulation that they were non transferable, consequently they are akin to invitations to any private event and the tickect holders do not have legitimate title to sell them on. To attempt to do so is fraud, pure and simple. Why are so many alleged supporters of the free market here condoning fraud? T
I meant ‘issued’ not ‘sold’ in the post above.
Coulam,
You are using my conjecture to paint my position,you know the meaning of “if”.
Nobody is condoning fraud,but it was a bloody silly way to distribute tickets,and Geldof has been in the business long enough to know all the scams involved in ticket sales.
Why was he surprised? Why did he not simply use the not transferable argument with eBay,why the nasty totalitarian rant?
Peter,
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to misrepresent your position, I just thought your question about the non-transferable nature of the tickets was a relevant starting point for my own point about fraud. I know many people did not realise the tickets were non transferable when they condoned the sales.
I agree with you that it was a stupid way to issue tickets and that Geldof’s rant was ridiculous but I also think that the whole Live8 idea is utterly stupid from start to finish.
I’m just making the libertarian point that Bob should be allowed to do these ignorant and stupid things without being defrauded.
Why did he not simply use the not transferable argument with eBay,why the nasty totalitarian rant?
He is not as clever as me.
Paul,
What has irked me,is when I did a search on eBay,there were only two pairs of tickets on offer,both for London with hotel and hospitality thrown in.Some may have already been sold but it didn’t appear at the time to be a significant problem.Certainly a lot less than the average football match ticket touting.Probably well within business estimates and certainly not costing Live8 money, indeed merely exchanging one unknown guest for another.
St Bob’s vitriol seemed overdone and only eBay was targeted,more tickets may have probably sold by other means.
I would like to know the truth of the matter.
Incidentally now the G8 countries have written of $30 billion,there is no need for this consciousness raising event.
Paul,
Firstly, the “non transferable” condition probably wasn’t made clearly up front at the time of the transaction, so really, there’s no legal leg to stand on.
Secondly, what’s libertarian about a condition like “not transferable”? You sell me something, it’s mine. I win a ticket, it’s mine. I can choose to turn up, burn it, or, in my view, sell it to a mate. You gave up your rights to it the moment you took my money/text bid.
Tim writes:
what’s libertarian about a condition like “not transferable”? You sell me something, it’s mine. I win a ticket, it’s mine. I can choose to turn up, burn it, or, in my view, sell it to a mate. You gave up your rights to it the moment you took my money/text bid.
So if you send me an invitation to a dinner party at your house I am then free to sell it to anyone I like and you simply have to put up with it and cook for them and entertain them anyway?
Tim, your understanding of libertarianism is very superficial.
Oh please…this still pisses me off. As much as I despise EBAY they are running a business. Who the hell does this guy think he is? He is some washed up, hack, pop singer from the 80’s. He’s become a millionaire peddling trashy music to the masses. Now all of the sudden he’s some patron saint. I’m so sick of Bono, Sinead Oconnor and now this dickhead moralizing to the world on how they should conduct themselves. If I was EBAY I would have said who the hell is Bob Geldof? I mean for God’s sake he hangs with Madonna now, another media whore turned “reformed” saint. These people make me sick to stomach. Just shutup, write your stupid songs and hope to God the masses will still find you relevant enough tomorrow to buy your albums so you can continue to jetset to the South of France. These are the people that are trying to make you feel guilty for not giving enough to charity. Charity this you cocksuckers!