As strange as it may sound, I still maintain a smidgeon of sympathy with all those wretched, deluded souls who sincerely believed that technology was going to liberate us all from the leviathan. I am but fearful. They, on the other hand, must be both fearful and crushed:
The British government acknowledged Monday that it would consider using implanted ID chips to track sex offenders, raising the specter of forced chipping.
While not yet a reality, implants that can remotely check bodily functions and location are just around the corner: Microchips are being developed for a variety of health functions, and a Florida company is planning to develop a prototype of an implanted GPS device by the end of the year.
When the Food and Drug Administration green-lighted the use of ID chips in humans last month, civil liberties advocates worried that people could be forced to get chipped as a condition of employment or parole. News that the British government may implant sex offenders in the future fanned those fears.
Of course, it will start with convicted (or maybe even suspected) child molesters. Who could possibly object to that?
Exactly, David! Not people convicted of robbery with violence – by far, a larger category of offender – not burglars, not muggers or car thieves – again, vastly larger portions of the population – but a threat to the kiddies ! Oh, bless!
This government is so transparent that if they weren’t so lethal, they’d be laughable. Actually, they’re laughable anyway, but in a worrying kind of way.
The only way I’d ever approve of this was if they did some sort of Escape From New York style bomb-in-the-neck implant to go with them, which I think we could all get behind for comedic value alone. Since that won’t go through however, this is another entry on the list of things that make me want to spit on the carpet when I hear the words “New labour.”
Dave – yes, but I’m strangely interested in this ‘bomb-in-the-neck’ deal.
How long is everyone going to think this is all just going to work out?…better arm yourselves before it’s too late.
Winzeler – Unless the government gets in control of violence, thuggery and violent murdering of tiny, fragile old people trying to resist having their little shreds of possessions taken away from them … oh, wait a minute! You’re right!
Except, Toneboy made laws that the British weren’t allowed to protect themselves! He knows which side of the law his supporters are on! The police in Britain is all pretend! It’s actors! “Good ev’nin’ , madam. I unnerstand they was an incident this ev’nin’. Excuse me, madam! I an’t ask you any questions yet, ‘ave I? So jus’ shut up because I am readin’ my lines, an’ I?” Drawing himself up, “I can’ see w’ere you ‘ave a speakin’ role, madam.”
First it will be aimed at the Child molestors and no-one will complain in any meaningful way.
Then someone will make it convenient, I remember (Link) this story and see the chipping becoming voluntary.
The stupids will do to themselves what the Government could never begin to ask them too. Parents would be next, oh yes I can chip little Johnny and know where he is, rather like now with Mobile phones, thay can be used for such a purpose.
Something to think about.
Gengg
Verity, I truly feel sorry for my Birtish comrades, particularly those frequenting this blog. In fact, here in the US, I see little hope of the so-called democratic process helping us any either. Nevertheless, we still retain one particularly valuable bargaining chip, the right to keep and bear arms. Make no mistake, I am exercising that right with the full knowledge that someday I will be making use of it.
Isn’t the Wired article quoted above now a bit out of date ?
It seems to be dated: “02:00 AM Nov. 19, 2002 PT”
Hilary Benn, is no longer “the minister responsible for supervising sex offender programs” – his Secretary of State for International Development.
Applied Digital Solutions / VeriChip has been hyping up its stock price for years, claiming that is about to develop implantable GPS satellite tracking chips , which have never emerged, for obvious technical reasons (“ye cannae change the laws of physics”)
Why not just hang the child molesters? (Sorry, I have a kid, and he is not chiped).
I hate child molesters, but this will lead to no good! Child molesters, then drunk drivers, then errant spouses who fall behind in child support, it will just inch upward. I say lets implact the child molesters right after we implant these devices in every politician that votes for this, every judge that rules it constitutional and every person charged with tracking the devices. Better yet, lets make these implants a prerequisite for politicians before we start with the sex offenders!
Alisa: That’s just silly. Why put a microchip in a dead body? It’s not like we’d be worried about his movements…
Why not just hang the child molesters?
1. For the same reasons as one wouldn’t hang anyone else, not least the state cannot be trusted to not to hang the wrong people, AND…
2. Sex crimes have particular difficulties in achieving adequate proof, AND (most importatntly)…
3. The definition of “child molester” is infinitely shifting and constantly expanding in our times, since the “threat” of sex to children is the one moral panic that is the most difficult to contradict and is therefore one of the easiest to make a career in.
4. When strong emotions are aroused, most people find it very difficult to think. Which exacerbates 1, 2, and 3.
In Brazil and other Latin American countries it’s comon for judges and governement officials to have a chip implanted because of kidnappings. Due to recent kidnappings to relatives of football stars i suppose that will spread to comon people. Parents to track children etc…
That’s really helped defeat the oppressive state, hasn’t it? I mean, without that you’d be forced to put up with such things as the Patriot Act. Plans for centralised ID would have passed Congress if not for RKBA. Oh, wait…
Really, I think people need to get a bit more realistic about what this can and cannot achieve. Certainly it will not stop a government intent on micro-managing everyday life, especially in a democratic state. It hasn’t so far, and there’s no reason to suppose it will. In itself, it doesn’t even prevent outright dictatorship – just take a look at the Middle East.
So when, exactly, were the armed populace going to stand up to the overmighty state and say No?
EG
I agree with “Watching them” on this it looks like an exercise in stock hyping. Compared to other types of electronics GPS takes quite a lot of current as the circuit needs a radio receiver and a 32 bit processor to handle the considerable maths needed to work out its position from the radio data. I have worked with handheld 2 way radios (as used by Policemen and security guards) with built in GPS receivers for what is termed lone worker protection. In every one I have seen so far this shortens the battery life of the set by a fair amount. These radios are the size of a 1990 era mobile phone with a battery with a fair capacity. So this isn’t something you can implant in a body
Not a GPS, no. A much shorter-ranged chip that could be triangulated by, say, cellphone towers, well, that’s almost feasible…
rossignol: “Not a GPS, no. A much shorter-ranged chip that could be triangulated by, say, cellphone towers, well, that’s almost feasible..”
Yes, for cellphone sized devices , which are way too big to implant ! VeriChips are very small, very simple devices which were originally (and still are) used to tag pet cats, dogs, prize cattle etc. and they work at low frequencies e.g. 125KHz since that is not absorbed too much by salty electoytic fluid i.e. human flesh and blood, compared with the ultra high frequencies, as used by GPS satellites use.
Any externakl battery or GPS or mobile phone unit which has to be used in conjuction with an implant totally negates the point of the implant in the first place, and is just another electronic tag.
luckylucky: “In Brazil and other Latin American countries it’s comon for judges and governement officials to have a chip implanted because of kidnappings.”
That is what the VeriChip corporate PR spin would have you believe , but the reality is that they have given away a few chips and very short range readers as a promotional exercise, and even the reports of the Mexican officials using them are exaggerated:
http://www.spychips.com/press-releases/mexican-implant-correction.html
Even non-implanted electronic tags are not a suitable technology for risky, desparate or driven recidivist offenders like those on the Violent or Sexual Offenders Register. The Blunkett / Clarke fantasy is that somehow these types of criminal can be let out of prison earlier (therby saving money) and that the private sector companies who monitor these tags will somehow be able to enforce “no go” zones around school playgrounds etc(when , of course, most sexual abuse occurs indoors, at home, well out of the direct line of sight needed for GPS satellite tracking.
Euan, the reason it hasn’t been able to withstand those infringments has to do with motivation, not capacity. I recognize that there are two major battle scenarios. One of them is (or could be) physical, hence, arms. The other is psychological. The psychological battle, I concede, we are losing. The powers that be are way more qualified, and, more importantly, have way more intrinsic advantages to win the psychological war. It is much easier for a government to capitalize on a tragic situation, like 9-11, Columbine, etc., than it is for freedom lovers to capitalize on productive uses of freedom -they’re not as sensational and they don’t appeal to fear. Fear (and greed) is easier to motivate than the desire to be free.
I take your point about the relative advantages of the state in this respect. However, freedom from threat tends to trump freedom to be killed in the minds of most, so it’s hardly surprising.
The question is when, or if, it will shift from psychological to physical “battle.” I don’t think it will, and I think the idea that an armed populace will prevent tyranny is so much wishful thinking. Even if it wasn’t, the federal government has the right under the constitution to forcibly suppress insurrection and rebellion. I imagine this right would be exercised should it prove necessary.
EG
I like the idea of chipping politicians first. Not because it will accomplish anything except make them feel monitored and uncomfortable.
If we’d had David Blunkett chipped, we could have found out about his schoolgirl crush (“It was so beautiful. We used to read poetry together …”) on Wossname before he reached the tearful stage.
Verity writes:
“If we’d had David Blunkett chipped…”
Dunno about chipped, neutered might be more to the point. That way he might have some energy left to do his job.
Umm… no… on second thoughts, perhaps it’s better as things are. The less time the arrogant bully has to try bossing the rest of us around, the better.
Go to it, Mr Blunkett!
Euan, I tend to think the economic discrepancies (which will ultimately lead to some kind of crash) propogated by this government will spark some kind of physical battle. However, if the psychological battle hasn’t been successful for the freedom minded leading up to this point, we’ll soon be crushed by sheer numbers and will. On the other hand, if we have been successful, the tyrrany will not have all the things it now considers assets, like a military consisting of…people or infrastructure, etc.
When will the armed revolt occur? Well, the economy is good, so not real soon. Any ‘blows’ against the State here in the US are relatively small, carried out by those most disaffected (e.g. McVeigh).
But (here in the US) stand at the edge of mighty shifts in our brand of Statism. It will either stop making empty promises and finally shrink in size and influence, allowing the market to control, or it will turn to a much more stringent brand of Statism in an attempt to make good on the promises exchanged for votes. Maybe at that time there will be more resistance, and of a more violent nature, by those, who thus far, have been a little less disaffected.
Considering that only a little more than half of eligible voters actually vote, it tells me that there are many people who just want to be left alone. As of now, they have at least come to terms with the level of invasion by the government in their lives, and the cost/benefit isn’t there to put up resistance. But if the government actually endeavors to make good on the massive accrued deficit, it will have to substantially increase its presence. How will that, heretofore silent, ~50% react? How will portions of those who actually vote react?
It should make one pause seeing the erosion of individualism and privacy technology can bring coupled with a State in an extremely precarious position between retaining power and making good on relatively empty promises. The State isn’t likely to go quietly, and it, day by day, gains the ability to single out people and keep them under their thumb.
It is disquieting to see the ramping of collectivism and the inability of any one individual to screen themselves and maintain privacy. It’s a bad combination.
toolkien, good to hear from you again…been a while.
I think the crunch will happen when the state can no longer maintain its deficit. Like you’ve said before, either it will basically go bankrupt and implode, or it will try to, by force, magically cancel its debt. Either option will destroy the economy. That is when the revolution will be most likely. Whoever wins the psychological war up to that point will likely win the physical one. Collectivism must be fought on a psychological plane first.
If the physical location of the chip is known, and it’s hard to see how the wearer couldn’t know that, it wouldn’t be too difficult to build a device which could be placed on the surface of the skin over the chip which would kill the chip. These devices are necessarily low power, which means they’re CMOS. A coil generating a localized high intensity magnetic field alternating at a decent frequency (e.g. a few MHz) would work just fine. Such a gizmo could easily be created using standard off-shelf components and could destroy such a chip in just a few seconds.
Voluntary chipping may become widespread. But involuntary chipping is easily defeated.
Planting silicon chips in people might become quite common in the armed forces. I can imagine pilots, for instance, having tracker chips inserted into a part of the body so if the pilot ejects from a plane, he/she can be picked up asap. Some professions may require “chipping” as part of the job.
And you never know, chip implants may become a sort of fashion craze among the young. Stranger things have happened.
Johnathan Pearce :”Planting silicon chips in people might become quite common in the armed forces. I can imagine pilots, for instance, having tracker chips inserted into a part of the body so if the pilot ejects from a plane, he/she can be picked up asap. Some professions may require “chipping” as part of the job.”
Pilots are never going to be ejected naked from their aircrraft, so there is plently of space in their emergency packs for homing device and communications equipment.
It would be insane for any members of the armed forces togive away their postion or nationality or unit information to a simple radio frequency signal, which can be easily intercepted and re-played by enemy electronic warfare teams, who could then literally target missiles or weapons fire on their exact positions. It really does not matter if an encrypted protocol is established or not, just the radio traffic communciations data will be enough to betray their positions and put their lives at risk.
The same is true for military logistics chain use of RFID tags in uniforms, combat boots , food raqtion packs etc – potentially better logistics needs to be weighed against exposing soldiers’ positions or activating targeted booby traps or landmines etc.
The Mexican Attorney General’s Office alliuded to above risks exposing any of their personnel who deal with drugs smuggling cartels in an undercover role, to betrayal by a VeriChip scanner, which the drugs criminals will have no difficulty in obtaining, probably legitimately.
The proposed US Biometric Passports with RFID chips pose similar risks.
Planting tracking chips inside humans is stupid where it is not actually evil. Involuntary external electronic tagging is not much better.
http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/electronic_tags_implants/index.html
Hello people,
the ability to choose to be chipped to make life a little bit more convenient would appeal to many people.
Think about a chip in the end of your index finger linked to your debit/credit card and a finger scanner in the supermarket, no cards, no cheque books, no signatures just stick it in and go.
That idea could be sold very easily to millions of people, its better for the government than the identity card they want to introduce, because people would WANT to be chipped.
‘Anything for an easier life’ is unfortunately a battle cry for this decade. I would hazard a guess that even large numbers of people who are against the Government ID card would take to the ‘convenience chip’ quite readily.
I may be wrong, I hope I am.
Later
Gengee
Or perhaps not, Gengee.
Oops, I think I made a mistake. I thought this was a LIBERTARIAN blog, not a statist, authoritarian one where someone writes,
‘Scuse me while I go back to reading Indymedia … at least they love our Tone and Cherie…
Damn, and I thought this was a place where people posted articles, people read said articles and posted comments about the articles. Then other people read the articles and the comments and posted their own comments, after reading all of any comment, rather than just lifting a single sentence out and pointing fingers *grin*
Wow, I am the statist, I suggest a position that I see clearly many people would find convenient and probably act upon, especially if it became fashionable. I did not condone it, I do not condemn it, I do not actually see anything wrong with the proposition, as stated, as a choice of the individual to make his or her life more convenient.
I can see this being entirely market driven, I can also see it being usurped by the Government, but that does not mean the idea is Statist, just because something can be done does not mean it should be done or would be done.
And as for the finger hacking in the other Article, I think even the minimum wage checkout chappy would probably notice if you stuck someone elses bloody finger in her reader machine *grin*
Later
Gengee
I doubt this will happen. Fortunately, the world now uses fiat currency and not one based on the scarcity value of lumps of shiny metal. Commodity currencies provide low inflation, but they also tend to result in recession becoming depression because the range of economic policy available to the state is limited. With a fiat currency, the worst excesses of the economic cycle are absorbed easily through policy changes or intervention. The prospect of economic collapse as envisaged is remote indeed.
EG
Gengee: “And as for the finger hacking in the other Article, I think even the minimum wage checkout chappy would probably notice if you stuck someone elses bloody finger in her reader machine *grin*”
The bloody finger was for use on the otherwise unattended application of the alarm/immobiliser system. of the stolen car.
What minimum wage checkout chappy ? The attraction of such a scheme would be the alleged “savings” by not having to employ any such people.
VeriChip already try to sell a credit card linked payment system with their implanted chips, which again, they gave given away as promotions to some nigh clubs and bars in Barcelona , The Hhague and even Glasgow, precisely to try to create an artiificial marketing buzz.
The opportunities for criminals with such a scheme are very tempting – you can steal credit card details remotely by radio.
A criminal free for all is not the same as a free market.