This being Sunday, let us turn our minds towards matters otherworldly. Today’s Telegraph contains this devilishly diverting story:
Chris Cranmer, a naval technician serving on the Type 22 frigate Cumberland, has been officially recognised as a Satanist by the ship’s captain. That allows him to perform Satanic rituals aboard and permits him to have a funeral carried out by the Church of Satan should he be killed in action.
My immediate reaction was, of course: What the hell is the world coming to? But thinking about it some more, I reckon that a Satanist would be able to throw himself into a battle at least as enthusiastically as your average Christian.
A spokesman for the Royal Navy – echoing that Rowan Atkinson Church of England Bishop, who noted the forces of good, and of evil, and who said that the role of the Church of England is to strike a balance between the two – assures us that all is well:
A spokesman for the Royal Navy insisted that Mr Cranmer’s unconventional beliefs would not cause problems on board ship. “We are an equal opportunities employer and we don’t stop anybody from having their own religious values,” he said.
The report ends with this further quote from the same source:
“Nobody is suggesting there is anything at all dark about this.”
Perish the thought.
One of the characters in Robert Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers” observes that the unit doesn’t need a padre, it needs a good Satanist.
When asked to justify this obvious blasphemy, he answers, “God’s good, right? He’ll treat you OK. It’s that other guy you gotta watch out for.”
But sometimes, truth really *is* stranger than fiction…
Satanism is my kind of religion – you screw up and you go to heaven.
The US military has had chaplain’s guidelines for a while on how to handle the religious needs of satanists, wiccans, and any other whacko fringe religion out there.
I’d have a hard time believing that the British military hasn’t had similar guidelines in place for a while now, either.
Um pagans & wiccans are a “wacko” religions why exactly? You don’t recognise them as legitimate but surely its a matter of personal taste. I personally find the Christian religion fairly laughable and unpalatable, but I don’t call it “wacko.” There are some forms of paganism that pre-date Christianity. Religion or lack thereof is just another form of personal expression. If the military has provisions for any religion to be practiced at all then it should allow all to be practised.
And after all it order to be Satanist, you have to be Christian first. Satanists are an odd breed to be sure, but not necessarily total out there.
You might be interested to know there is a Pagan conservative movement.
Andrew, I don’t care if there is a pagan conservative movement. Nor do I care if people want to worship Satan, a tree, or a coffee table. It makes no difference in my life.
However, I do reserve the right to mock these jackasses who are basically acting on some adolescent, infantile need to “buck the system” as they see it. Most of these people are posers, and I’ll ridicule them as I see fit, thanks.
Any church that encourages its adherents to run around wearing black robes and a sword while fulfilling random sexual desires and “chang[ing] situations or events in accordance with their will” has a certain appeal.
Ralf: *rimshot*
I do wonder if this sailor has become annoyed with the little perks that mainstream religion sailors get i.e a bit of time off on Sunday. So has decided to get himself a religion (as offensive as possible of course) so he to can enjoy the perks. It makes sense !
1327
The head of the Venezuelan army -General Raul Isias Baduel- is a Daoist.
I am sure this has been dealt with before, so can someone post a link to a list of ‘officially recognised’ religions? Ones that the state makes allowances for? And how one’s religion can get on the official list?
I agree with Hank that they are wackos. Anyone who believes in any religion is a wacko.
I can actually think of a few good reasons why a member of the armed forces shouldn’t be a Satanist that have nothing to do with how “wacky” the beliefs are. If you look into Satanism via the Satanic Verses, you’ll see that it preaches hedonism above all else. If a true hedonistic practitioner is involved in, say, a battle, is there any reason to think that the person will do his job, knowing that he will potentially be killed, rather than doing everything possible to save his own hide? Still, I guess if you take the oath to do your duty you’re saying that you can set aside those religious beliefs if need be in time of battle.
TO: Brian Micklethwait
RE: Yeah…But….
“…I reckon that a Satanist would be able to throw himself into a battle at least as enthusiastically as your average Christian.” — Brian Micklethwait
….he should not expect much in the way of promotions when it comes to security clearances. I suspect it being something to do with Satan being the antithesis of “good”, as we understand it. You know, things like lying, cheating, stealing and all. Not to mention that nasty bit about living for oneself as opposed to living for others.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. He could always apply to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury. Right?
“He could always apply to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury. Right?”
No, he actually beleives in god so that rules him out!
TO: Rod Read
RE: As We Say on This Side of the Big Pond…
“No, he actually beleives in god so that rules him out!” — Rod Read
….Ouch!
Trés amusant…(please pardon my French).
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Snookie said:
“I agree with Hank that they are wackos. Anyone who believes in any religion is a wacko.”
Religion is just a philosphical worldview like Objectivism or Marxism or Liberalism. If religious people are whacko so is every other person on the planet, because we all have some kind of philosophical worldview.
Hank said:
“However, I do reserve the right to mock these jackasses who are basically acting on some adolescent, infantile need to “buck the system” as they see it. Most of these people are posers”
There are probably several hundred thousand people in the West who pratice some form of revivalist paganism, so are you claiming to know the psychological motivation for all of these people? Thats an amazing talent. I have never heard of anyone being able to see in to thousands of peoples minds like that.
So, either you have met most of them, and spent time getting inside their heads, in which case you may have some basis for your view, or you havent in which case your just lying to bolster arrogant baseless snobbery.
My own view about Western modern paganism, Satanism aside for the moment, is that its based on a romantic but not very historically accurate understanding of pre-Christian peoples. But the few adult pagans I have met seemed to be genuine people serching for something deeper than the shallow and soulless culture currently on offer in the West.
Well, at least there is no cannibalism in the Royal Navy… (yet)
If you ignore the magical element of CoS beliefs it’s actually damn close to Rand’s Objectivism, in that it promotes self-interest over sacrifice for the sake of others.
Also, the Satan being worshipped is not the physical embodiment of evil which is found in Christian belief, LaVey described it as
“the spirit of progress, the inspirer of all great movements that contribute to the development of civilization and the advancement of mankind. He is the spiritof revolt that leads to freedom, the embodiment of all heresies that liberate.”
Well, at least there is no cannibalism in the Royal Navy… (yet)
Absolutely none, and when I say none, I mean
there is a certain amount…
Satanic Verses is a book by Salman Rushdie. As far as I know no one uses it as a basis for worship.
If you are gonna slam Satanists at least know the relevant works…and it depends on which branch you are talking about as well.
You must have a different edition from me. I know that novel inside and out and I’ve never read that passage. Can you provide the edition and page number? Or are you perhaps talking about some other novel?
The padre/satanist joke is from Pournelle’s “The Mercenary” I believe.
Hope ya’ll don’t mind if I go quotin a little Slayer but…..
SING THE WORDS OF PRAISE
HAIL SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
m/ m/
Steve: “If you ignore the magical element of CoS beliefs it’s actually damn close to Rand’s Objectivism, in that it promotes self-interest over sacrifice for the sake of others.” — not true. Rand would say that amorality isn’t selfish, that only a maker can live for himself and be master of his destiny – a taker is tied to and limited by his prey, and infinitely vulnerable to their refusing to play his game.
Thanks Mike. 🙂
To be honest, I’m a notorious screw-up, spritually speaking.
Come on, Steven, there’s nothing wrong with a bite of long-pig now and then.
Lol, a Slayer quote…I was rather expecting considering the age of some of who comment here that the quote would be from Venom.
It would be interesting to know what sort of Satanist this sailor practices (Anton Levey’s Church of Satan, Temple of Set, the Norwegian variety etc)
That is not very sensible. By that definition, you think when I say ‘wacko’ I means ‘someone with any philosophy’. So do you REALLY think all philosophies are as good as each other?
I would define ‘wacko’ as believing in things which are complete falsifiable nonsense, like flat earth theories, UFO abduction, invisible guardian angels/spirits/gods who sometimes seem to help but eventually get you die of some nasty disease in the long run, keynsian economics… you know, that sort thing 🙂
Ok…
A little late at this point, but I just have to ask,
Julien wrote –
“Rand would say that amorality isn’t selfish, that only a maker can live for himself and be master of his destiny – a taker is tied to and limited by his prey, and infinitely vulnerable to their refusing to play his game.”
.. While certainly wise, what does that have to do with the comparison of Objectivism to Satanism? I can only guess your implying that Satanists are… “takers” rather than “makers”… but I don’t really see any proof of that assumption.
Can anyone tell me if satanism has any respect for property rights? Or does it call for use of force only in response to force initiated against you? That would certainly clarify it relevence to Rand.
Just nitpicking Snookie, but only flat earth theories and Keynesian economics are totally falsifiable. The rest may be unlikely, particularly using modern sensory abilities, but not actually falsifiable.
I agree with you Andrew, but I have an affinity for Hank’s point. I have met a few pagans and wiccans and have found that I am batting 1000 on the “wacko” side of the scale. I leave room intellectually for there to be some non-wackos, but then I also believe that quantum physics may be real, so maybe Im just a wacko too….
Memories stir of a Not the Nine o’Clock News sketch. IIRC:
Reporter (to Vicar): “And what is your attitude toward these Satanists?”
Vicar: “Well, one must be tolerant. After all, we are all God’s children. Errr, umm, that is…”
Reporter (to Satanists): “And what is your opinion on the Church’s view of you?”
Satanist: “Couldn’t give a sod, basically.”