As a few (very few) kind emailers have noticed, I have been pretty much out of circulation the last couple of months. There are a couple of reasons for this.
First, there just isn’t much going on that has caught my eye. We are seeing a bunch of pre-existing patterns play out, with little new in such arenas as the Iraqi war or domestic US politics. Its all blah blah blah, same old same old. Bush lied, Halliburton is a bunch of crooks, you are all helpless victims of the corporations, etc. ad nauseum, but very little new in the way of facts to move the discussion forward, really. I find the Democratic primaries intensely uninteresting – none of the candidates will do anything to make the US a freer, more vibrant society, so a pox on all of ’em. If GWB ever does anything on the domestic front that I approve of, you will be the first to know, but don’t hold your breath. I certainly won’t.
Second, my apathy toward current events probably has a lot to do with the fact that I have been laid off (Friday is my last day), and have been spending most of my energy scratching for a new position. The circumstances of my departure (law firm political backstabbing) are guaranteed to produce a jaundiced attitude in even the most callous of self-reliant free-marketeers, which has doubtless colored my view of the larger world.
One ray of sunshine – the Wisconsin Senate voted last week to overturn the Governor’s veto of a concealed carry bill. The even more Republican Assembly has it calendared for today, which they wouldn’t do unless they also have the votes to overturn (barring an outbreak of utter incompetence from Assembly leadership, a possibility I wouldn’t dismiss out of hand). So, it looks like Wisconsin will legalize concealed carry at the exact instant that I lack the funds to score a new gun. Bah.
Speaking of which, suggestions from the commentariat on concealed carry guns are hereby solicited. I have one, and only one, non-negotiable requirement – .45 only. No Europellets, no marketing department hybrid calibers like the .40, just good old, puts-big-holes-in-people, .45s for this Samizdatista.
might I recommend the glock 30. Smallest .45 Glock that still carries a 10 round mag. Superb dependability, better than any 1911 that I have seen. The model 36 is smaller, but with only a 6 round mag, you might as well carry a revolver with a speed loader. My dad is a gunsmith, specializing in conceal/carry pistols. He continually tests various models of pistols for accuracy, weight, size, stopping power, and (most importantly) dependability. The best gun in the world is useless if it jams and your 15 feet from your opponent. Glock seems to be the consistent leader for dependability out of the box, no mods, no special rounds. Accuracy is tolerable, and at 10 to 40 feet (typical self-defense range) its more accurate than the average shooter. Its a little boxy, not a pretty weapon, but very effective. Revolvers are, of course, the most dependable handguns in general, but in .45 they are very wide, especially with a 6 shot model. If you must have a shorter grip for space/hiding capabilities, the glock 36 is ok, I just like 10 rounds myself.
Glock 30/36?
Springfield 1911-A1 Ultra Compact?
H&K USP.45 Compact?
The best method would be to go to your local dealer and poke around =]
I dunno, I seem to be able to get away okay using my full-size 1911, and i’m not a big guy.
Sorry ’bout the job. As an attorney, I understand how crapulent law firm politics are. Been there, done that. Let me know if you find the magic formula for finding a good job.
As for the concealed carry piece… try before you buy. I can’t stress this enough. You will be closer to that pistol than to your wife; she only spends about 11 hours a day with you, after all. If you can, after you have your permit / license, borrow a similar model from a friend and try carrying it. That will sort out what works best in the “carry” mode. It’s amazing how tiny defects – too much burr on the slide, a slightly protruding hammer, sights that catch on the clothing or holster – can piss you off entirely.
As for shooting characteristics, the best all around pistol in.45, IMHO, is the Sig-Sauer P-245. It’s a variant of the P-229 carried by cops and armies all over the world. The good points are it’s double action with a firing pin lock, so it can be carried relatively safely in Condition 1. It has perfect ergonomics, so shooting it well is nearly intuitive. It is perfect for a two handed “high thumbs” combat grip, which allows accurate tactical shooting. (Double taps, pointed (not aimed) at center mass of the target). Plus the quality is top notch and it is rugged and light.
As a real man, I love the M-1911A1 Colt. Unfortunately, I’m also a big real man, so the thing fits nicely under my arm when I wear a suit or loose jacket – but it probably doesn’t fit you at all. (6’0″, 270 lbs weightlifter). The Colt Commander might also be worth a look if you like the M-1911. The Commander is just a downsized M-1911, with lighter and slightly smaller pieces. Either pistol is very reliable, safe to carry in Condition 1, and useful as a boat anchor if you run out of goblins to shoot.
The Glock is an excellent weapon, if you are small enough to use it. I have hands like small hams, so it’s hard for me to grip it properly. I can shoot it off-hand – sideways, with a one handed grip – but the slide still bites my hand. Two-handed, my left thumb always manages to hit the slide release. It’s still a great, small, light pistol – but better suited to somebody with smaller mitts.
In summary – if I was going to war, I’d want the Colt. If I was going to give a nice big caliber pistol to my wife for a carry piece, I’d want the Glock. And if I wanted to go to a meeting in a very bad neighborhood downtown, I’d want the Sig.
My opinion doesn’t really matter to you, however. All these are good, and there are a lot more good handguns on the market. You need to shoot a range of pistols, and maybe borrow one of each to carry for a day or two to see what it’s like, and to find the one that really fits you.
Call me old fashioned, but if you insist on the .45 I still like the good old classic 1911A1 Colt. You’ll have to get your coat retailored to carry it concealed, but if you were worried about that you’d carry a 9mm.
Sorry to hear about your job change. I’ve gone through that myself a few times now and, frankly, it stinks. I have no idea what your desires and plans are, so please forgive me if this is a completely inane suggestion. I’ve had to smile and say thanks politely and enthusiastically when well meaning friends made idiotic suggestions to me when I was trying to get back into my chosen profession. I hope this isn’t equally idiotic: There is a law school in Ypsilanti, Michigan that is affiliated with the Ave Maria Institute. It was set up by the fellow who built the Domino Pizza company. Apparently he was a good Catholic who was appalled at the marxism of most of the law schools in the US, so he sold the company, took the money and did something about it. I have no idea if they need more faculty or if your inclinations run in that direction, but the attitudes and principles that I have seen in your posts are exactly what they need.
I can’t suggest a .45 carry weapon. I wish I could. I have a Kimber that would be great if I could figure out a way to conceal it. Here in Houston 9 or 10 months of the year are too hot to wear a suitcoat so, without undergoing surgical alteration, I can’t figure out a way to conceal anything much bigger than a .38 Airweight in a pocket holster. I would think that light clothes would be a problem in Wisconsin for at least a month or two in the summer. I’ve thought about ankle holsters but I can just imagine banging a .45 against a conference table leg around some of the gun phobes in my office.
Of the weapons mentioned above I only have direct experience (and stong opinions! 😉 of 2 of them: the Colt 1911, which I love (but may be too big for you to carry concealed), and the Springfield 1911, which is a total bitch to clean in comparison to the Colt, which is why I grew to hate my ex-wife’s Springfield.
The exploded parts diagram for the Springfield has over 100 parts on it!! Many, many more than the Colt, and field stripping it and routine cleaning is a bitch for that reason.
I’ve heard rave reviews of the Kimber CDP, but I’ve never fired one. It’s got the M1911 mojo in a slightly more carryable format, so it seems an ideal compromise for your needs. Myself, I lean toward the view that .45 is, while certainly desirable on its own terms, not really necessary in a daily carrying iron, but you’re the one setting the terms.
my ex-wife’s Springfield
I dunno about you, but I now have the image of my ex-wife packing a .45 seared into my mind. Thanks a lot, David.
I’ve got a Para P-14 (full size 1911 clone with a double-stack magazine). Its a great gun, but about as practical to carry as a battleax. Not to worry, I will fondle, er, evaluate, just as many different guns as I can. My wife has a handy little Sig 9 that is just a wonderful gun, so I will be sure to look at theirs.
Isn’t it wonderful that there are, indeed, so many good guns to choose from?
The job thing will work out. They always do.
Yes, an ex-wife with a .45 in the same county does give me the willies at times, especially as she’s on SSI (literally ‘crazy money’ in this case), and I still owe her 27 grand in alimony.
A wise man once said to never marry anyone you haven’t been seeing for at least 6 months. Breaking that rule led to an awful marriage in my case.
Back to guns: IS there a .45 one can carry under their jacket without custom tailoring?
I dunno, I found that when I was in Indy the Glock21 fit rather well for me. I’m around 6ft and weigh in around 175lbs. And I didn’t have to worry about custom tailoring. Ofcourse being a non-american I could only stand and look pretty at someone elses house while wearing it. *grumble*
My buddy, had a C&C permit while he was living in state and he didn’t have any problems with it. He had about the same build as me. But his favorite was a nice little Glock 29 that he took everywhere with him. But he also had a Smith and Wesson 457 that he carried when he went out on the west side of Indy. heh.
RC,
Sorry about the job loss. Looking for a new job is usually a pain. However, as good a writer as you are I have no doubt that some bright law firm will be glad to have you aboard. Lawyers who reason as well as you are not a common article.
I read and understand your parameters. I’m going to offer a suggestion outside of them (think of jury nullification). First, look up the ballistics for .40 S&W and compare them to .45. I believe you’ll find there isn’t a great deal of difference. All the police departments in my area have either already gone to the .40 or are lobbying like crazy to get there. Since the cops really want a one-shot stop with ball ammo, I don’t think they would be going that way if the round didn’t deliver. I’ve seen the ballistics tables and they look pretty close to me.
Second, if you are in the least bit swayed by the ballistics comparison, you might be interested in trying out a Kahr P40 or K40 Covert. These guns have the smoothest double-action I’ve ever shot. Mine is dead accurate and it’s small enough to be carried in an Uncle Mike’s Sidekick, Size 3, pants-pocket holster.
I liked this gun so much that I went out and bought a second one to have as a spare. I have medium to small hands; this gun feels almost as good in them as my Walther PPK does. (The PPK, of course, feels like a Snap-On Tools 3/8″ ratchet, which is to say it feels like you were born with it in hand).
One more thing: if you still have concerns about going to .40, there is some incredibly potent ammunition out there. A company called RCBD (google it and you’ll find the website) makes some self-defense stuff that is the most lethal legal ammunition I’ve ever heard of.
It’s frangible round-nosed ammo which has some type of tricked-up metal composite for the bullet. This has enabled them to play with the KE=1/2 MV2 formula a bit. The M is less but the V is hellaciously fast. If you see the results of this stuff in gelatin or clay compared to SXT, Gold Dot, or any of the other premium self-defense ammo, you quickly realize this RCBD stuff is in a category all its own. Using this stuff I would think you could confidently expect a one-shot stop (center mass) with a flippin’ .380, much less .40 S&W!
If you’re bound and determined on .45, try Les Baer. I have a friend who just recently did a great deal of research on the best .45 to carry. He decided on Baer, with Kimber a very close second and Springfield Armory not far behind that.
Good luck, and keep us posted!
(On second thought, maybe the graphics are accurate…)
I’ll add my condolences about your job onto the pile, but I’m going to disagree with you about the Democratic candidates: if any single one of them gets elected, the domestic situation in the US will probably improve. Not because they’re any less awful than GWB, but because the Republican-controlled Senate and House have a habit of suddenly rediscovering their small-government principles when someone they hate is in the Oval Office.
And at the risk of gaining a reputation for nitpicking: it’s ad nauseam.
The Colt Officer’s model.
Smaller than the Commander. Not by much, but still smaller.
And, I believe, it can use the new Commander magazines which hold one more round than the older stock Commander magazines.
1911 goodness in a small envelope.
Sorry to hear about your job RC,
I have never been a big fan of .45ACP nor the Colt 1911 model, but I think this is one of those “cultural” differences… I grew up in the early ’90s with Glock 17s and Beretta 92Fs all arounds so I am totally biased against owning any other caliber than the “Europellet”.
I have never been in a gunfight, but I believe the best way to deal in dangerous situation is to have maximum amount of firepower directed at the targets in rapid rates. So the capacity and low recoil of 9mm makes it ideal for personal defense. 45s sure have more penetrating power, but your hapless average mugger / burglar will not be wearing body armor so that kinda negates the advantage.
Anyway, gun is still a gun, and by definitions ALL guns are cool so if .45 is your thing it’s fine by me. Whatever floats your boat, as Bender (from Futurama) would say.
Doug Collins wrote:
I can just imagine banging a .45 against a conference table leg around some of the gun phobes in my office
All this talk about concealed carry has got me intrigued. I can just imagine what many of my colleagues here in the UK would think if I brought a gun into work. How about in those US states where concealed carry is allowed? Do people as a rule find it unremarkable if you carry a gun, or do they either respect you for taking on the responsibility or sneer at you for being a gun-nut? Are there many private places such as restaurants and shops where the proprietor does not allow people to carry guns inside? What about bars? What about employers?
I hope it’s not too rude of me to intrude upon this thread with these questions. I can’t imagine what political and cultural changes would be required before the UK would pass concealed carry laws, so any insight into Americans’ attitudes towards guns would be interesting.
I have to second the Kimber, R.C. I recently held the Ultra CDP II in the gun store and almost fell down. I felt like I was in Videodrome and the gun was part of my hand. Also, they make the Ultra RCP (I think that’s the model), which is their smallest, most concealable .45, and it’s totally tricked out to have no snaggable edges, low profile, etc. But Kimbers cost, baby. The CDP was running a grand–but I’m still going to buy it.
Rob, to try and answer your question: it is a concealed permit. The point is that nobody knows you have it on you; if they see it, you can get busted for brandishing. Therefore, what they don’t know won’t hurt them, and there is no issue. If you know your coworkers are cool about it, you can tell them; if they are ninnies, you make sure they never see it or you leave it in the car.
If the law says that you are permitted to carry, their opinion is irrelevant.
For myself and my wife the choice is a Colt combat commander. My wife initially carried a Glock 36 which is their compact .45. She decided she liked my Colt better…
Note: the Colt commander is a shortened version of the
1911 with an aluminum frame and a bobbed hammer. The combat commander is similar but with a steel frame. All commanders use standard 1911 magazines.
Officers’ models are problematical.
I can no longer reccomend new Colts. Used ones are another matter. Likewise several companies make good 1911s. Springfield is good. Wilson if you have Rock-star income 😉
As to ammo, I rather like the Glaser Safety Slug:
http://www.safetyslug.com/
Rob,
It IS a cultural thing. Most Americans, particularly male Americans, believe a person should expect to handle his own problems. A great number of intelligent Americans have come to understand that a) there is a lot of crime on the streets, b) our justice system is a revolving-door joke, and c) there are not, and never will be, enough police to protect the average citizen. Basically, we understand that we’re on our own in regards to self-defense and any police officer who levels with you will verify that. All the police do is come and take reports after the crime is committed.
A telling stat acknowledging this is that America, as a society, spends twice as much on alarms and private security as the total cost of all police departments in the entire country. We wouldn’t be doing that if we felt well-protected.
The concern about criminal activity has brought about a great expansion of the concealed carry laws. I think we’re at either 39 or 40 states now that allow concealed carry. It has proven to be an overwhelming success in that violent crime in the concealed carry states has gone down by double-digit amounts while carry permit holders have shown themselves to be one of the most law-abiding segments of the society. As one police officer told me, “if you’re willing to pay all the money and go through all the trouble and paperwork it takes to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, you aren’t the person I need to be worried about.”
For most concealed carry holders, carrying a gun is roughly akin to having sufficient lifejackets in a boat or a spare tire in one’s car. It’s something you hope you don’t have to use but you know it is dangerous to go out without it.
As a previous poster said, the firearm is supposed to be concealed. Failing to do so could cost you your permit. I dress in such a fashion as to insure that my firearm is undetectable. I also practice its use on a regular basis and have paid for relatively extensive training. Most of the CCW holders I know do likewise, recognizing that carrying a gun is taking on a grave responsibility that one must know how to discharge properly should the need arise. Our liability laws also provide a serious goad in that direction as well.
Finally, it’s not that Americans are, as a society, really enamored of guns. Those of us who carry have just seen too much criminality go uncaught and unpunished to believe that any governmental organization really does a good job at protecting us from it. Therefore, as our Constitution allows us to, we bear arms to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
Hope that helps.
Thanks, Alfred – for some reason I always heard “concealed carry” as, “permmission to carry a concealed weapon” rather than as, “permission to carry a weapon as long as you conceal it” – if you see what I mean.
Robert,
Considering that your employment situation is errr precarious at the moment, you might want to get a cheaper .45 than the ones already suggested (Colt? Kimber? yikes, they’re ‘spensive, Lucy).
Allow me to suggest the Llama Mini-Max — at around $225, the best value for money in the carry-gun market. Mine has had about 800 rounds through it, with no ill effects.
When you get a new job, you can start thinking about the premium guns, but until then, the Mini-Max will suffice, in spades.
Oh, and an OT comment: I LOVE the new site design, but you guys probably knew I would.
Rob,
American gun attitudes seem to vary widely depending on where you are. Some states are more open, and in general rural areas tend to be more respectful of guns.
I would agree with Dan about the basic personal attitude towards conceal/carry is the concept of handling your own defense. Lovers of freedom recognize that it comes with both opportunity and risk. I like the idea of a police force, but one that could truly protect me from everything would necessarily be too intrusive. Therefore, I recognize the need to manage my own risk, and in todays world, karate doesnt cut it anymore. I carry a weapon with the same attitude as I carry a first aid kit. I hope an dpray I never need it, but I will have it and the skill to use it if the situation demands it.
There are plenty of people in the States that would freak out if they saw someone carried a gun that was not a police officer. Their opinion is not the point, if they choose to manage their risk in a different manner, that is their choice. If they think the police can handle all their issues, they are free to be naive. They are not free to invade my individual freedom by telling me what I can and can not do to protect myself and my family. The democratic vote of the majority should not be free to sacrifice the freedoms of the minority just because it doesnt fit majority opinion.
2 .45’s for concealed carry, the Tarus pt145 and the Glock.
I’ve been concidering getting a .40 with hollow points. A little smaller, still alot of punch and the hollow point will expand up to 1/2 inch and be less likely to go through an assailants body to harm someone else.
For home defense I’m considering the 1911. Nearly 100 years of US Military use can’t be wrong.
What about a small .357 magnum revolver? Like one of those 5 shot Charter Arms jobs? Nice & light, concealable, & being a wheelgun you _know_ it’s gonna go ‘bang’ on cue, and if it doesn’t, just work that trigger again! But, you are limited in capacity. Hmmm. Issues. Personally, if I could carry, it’d be a PPK in 9mm kurz because you can slip it in a pocket & they’re ergonomically perfect for me.
For a carry pistol choosing the right holster can be as important as the right pistol–with a good inside the waistband holster, even a large pistol can easily be concealed. I carry my M1911 in a Milt Sparks VersaMax II, and it conceals so well that even an untucked t-shirt is enough to hide it.
I suggest looking for good used pistols in the local gunshops. A used gun that’s been taken care of will be just as good as a new one, and you can save quite a bit of money that way. (My M1911 was made in 1918, and cost several hundred dollars less than a new Kimber or Springfield.)
Ah, I hadn’t ever thought about a CCW holder’s weapon being visible in states that aren’t also open carry before!
I guess that would be an issue in that case.
AZ is an open carry state, so if a CCW holder’s weapon is visible, it’s no problem.
As far as weapons at work go, I know that if you have signed an agreement to terms of employment that forbid weapons in the work place, you can be fired for violating that, CCW or not. One can contractually waive many rights in our Common Law legal system: carrying weapons is one of them that most corporate employers require you to waive while on their premises.
The only place that it’s statutorily prohibited to carry in AZ is in bars (open OR ccw!) Which is as it is in most states who’s gun laws I’m familiar with.
Yes, you will see folks here on occasion waltzing around the grocery store or whatever with a pistol on their hip. But interestingly, while openly carrying a long gun IS technically legal, it is culturally frowned upon here, as it tends to spook people, and WILL get you checked out by the police in an urban situation (and Pima County or the City of Tucson may have additional regulations on that too. But not at the State level).
1) Shootable .45’s don’t conceal, unless you’re really big, as mentioned before.
2) Listen to Kim. The Llama is just fine for quality, and based on the unbeatable 1911. Easy to shoot, and fits most hands extremely well. I had a Para-Ordinance, almost the same gun, and it was great.
Sam
Oops, sorry. The Mini Max is cut down in the grip and barrel (very unlike the P12), so it might be actually concealable for a normal sized guy. But it’s a bit small for my taste in actual shooting. I’d get a longer version unless you’re more serious about concealment than shootability. But have a look at Llama. Their guns are vastly underrated.
Sam
Oooohhhhh, that Charter Arms .357 revolver mentioned above looks very nice, just googled it up!
Alas all guns are in the realm of porn for me, unless and until I get my civil rights restored or move to a much more free nation than the US (as my PO 10 years ago said, “You sold acid to hippys at a Dead Show, not crack to kids on a playground!” )
“Felony inflation” (thanks for that term, Instapundit!) has deprived many non-violent persons to be deprived of their rights of self-defense, and of (in many states) voting rights.
I’m otherwise a “model CCW holder”, as I’ve been trained from a very young age by multiple relatives in only the most proper gun safety and usage, have no history of violence, a perfect driving record, have created jobs in my community, etc.
But I feel very, very divorced from our society, as I can’t even vote on what to pick my pocket for at the ballot box. So why the hell should I pay taxes, or the millions of others so similarly ‘de-socialized’ by non-violent Drug War felony convictions?
“No taxation without representation” and “consent of the governed” indeed!
You’d think that politicians would realize that they could increase their perceived legitimacy, and go ahead and “manufacture” some additional consent by ending the Drug War and going “ooops, here’s your votes back!”
But that, I fear, would make sense!
I agree that there arent enough police officers to protect and even if there were they DO NOT have a duty to protect a single individual, but the public as a whole.I know because the police were called and knew a guy was threatening me and my family for some time so i called the police and expressed our fears and pleaded for them for them to do a NCIC and they did and called back and said this guy is perfectly harmless you and your family have nothing to worry about. That evening he tried to push me off a second floor complex they arrested him and released him 1 hour after on simple batt charges only and the police were called there everyday for 2-3 days and I let them know he was still threating us and destroying property they said they didnt want to get involved 6 days later he snuck up to our truck while parked in my front yard while my wife in the drivers seat and my little 11 year old in the back seat me in the passenger seat and shot me 3 times with a 12 gauge using OO BUCKSHOT and one OOO BUCKSHOT 1st shot 4 inches from the window 2nd and 3rd shots 6 feet away . 6 days earlier The officer that arrested and released him for pushing me halfway over the balcony while my back was to him told me that the guy was just rebellious and does just the opposite of what we tell him to do if i tell him to put his hands in back he put them in front hes in his own little world he said and then told him We are afraid that hes going to break in our house and asked what is the law if he does and the officer said if he does DONT SHOOT HIM told me this 3 times then i said let me get this straight if this man breaks in our house with a gun and tries to kill my family dont and he shouts DONT SHOOT HIM JUST STRONG ARM HIM TELL WE GET THERE .By the way I told him that yall are afraid of him and not to go get a gun and shoot yall HMMM THANKS OFFICER you just said he does the opposite of what you tell him .People grow up thinking that the law will protect them after all thats what it says on there patrol cars to PROTECT AND SERVE !!!! BTW after he shot me my wife called the girls in the courthouse the girls said yall didnt know he had a rap sheet , the day he tried to push your husband off the second floor balcony they did a NCIC and this guy was convicted of murder in 1986 well the oficer that called back on the 25th march 04 said he was perfectly HARMLESS while he was reading off the NCIC HMMM protect ha ha yeh.I say get you a good gun and keep it VERY CLOSE not on the floor of your veh either esp if someone is threatening you or your family.