Okay, hands up all those people who did not see this coming:
France faces a year of turbulent and possibly explosive politics after a tactical alliance was formed at the weekend between two parties of a resurgent far left.
Mainstream parties will go into three important polls next year, with a spluttering economy, rising unemployment, a continuing menace from the far-right and an extreme left which is united and powerful for the first time in 30 years.
In an opinion poll published yesterday, after two leading Trotskyist parties agreed to fight regional and European elections together next spring, 31 per cent of French people said that they would “consider” voting for the far left.
One of the parties, the Ligue Communiste Revolutionnaire (LCR), has doubled its membership in the past 18 months, as young French people, seduced by the anti-globalisation movement and cynical about conventional politics, flocked to the extremes.
France is going down. It may well be too late to prevent this national self-immolation and were it not for their force du frappe that would be that. A tragic historical footnote but no more.
But will anyone be able to rest easy in the knowledge that a substantial nuclear arsenal has fallen into the hands of Les Moonbats? I just hope that someone, somewhere in the Anglosphere defence establishment is drawing up a contingency plan to deal with this. After all, we know for sure that they exist and the task of locating them should not prove too difficult.
It will be really interesting to see whether Marine Le Pen’s efforts to purge the FN of the racist hate-mongers bears fruit, and whether conservative Frenchmen coalesce, and start voting for the FN in similar fashion to the Lefties.
Somehow, I doubt it.
This is going to get a whole lot uglier before it gets better.
Bully for the leftists, in my opinion. Let them do to France what their ilk did to California. Considering how they are an enemy of the United States, and the EU is evolving into an enemy of the United States, France’s self-immolation will be damaging both for France and the EU. That is just fine by me.
Chirac-Raffarin has an overwhelming parliamentary majority. He is simply too weak and feckless to enact the radical structural reforms needed to revive the French economy. Even Gerhard Schroeder, the German socialist, is more intelligent than that.
Schroeder, for his part, has already done more than any European politician since Thatcher to liberalize a national European economy. Once his labor-market mini-reform gets rammed through, his record will have been even better.
Pretty ironic – even a socialist knows where to turn (rightwards) when the economy goes bad. If only our Democrats were so intelligent.
…and then we have this little development, coming to a French town near you.
Yikes.
kodiak attack in 3..2…1..
Change the place-names, Kim, and it would be entirely plausible the article was about London. Dr D has written plenty of pieces about criminal subculture in the urban areas of this country and I’m not sure there’s anything distinctively French in the story except geography.
Kodiak would be right to come here and defend his countrie damn bashing France is like a national sport here… It’s far from being the worse out there, but you just like to bash on it, to a point I consider it almost perverse….
You should try to alternate a bit, like bashing France, than us(Canada), than Russia, etc…
Funny thing about France is I am always hearing about how it is about to fall apart. I must admit that having worked there for a while back in ’97 I thought the place was about to collapse too.
OTOH there it is, still productive, still making things. If anybody knows how they do it, we should pay more attention. Buggered if I do.
I have commented previously that the ultimate end for the EU is a civil war, this news is just quickening the process.
However, of more immediate interest would be if anybody knows if Froggieland has an equivalent to Capt. Ernst Rohm, who will quickly organise the young brownshirts into a well disciplined force to speedup the process, instead of the random acts of violence they daily inflict on other Froggies. This of course would be in keeping with standard leftist practise.
I would bet good money that the British and American Intell groups have been keeping a close watch on Froggie WMDs for some time 🙂
And do not forget that the Kraut’s efforts to reform their welfare state are far from being etched in stone.
Ghaleon,
I can assure you that I am not ‘bashing’ France.
It just so happens that it is a major, neighbouring power and this is a pretty frightening and important story.
I don’t expect you to believe me, but I get no pleasure from posting this kind of thing. If the Trots take over that country then a lot of ordinary, decent people are going to suffer the appalling consequences and that makes me very sad indeed.
If there was something I could do prevent that happening I would do it but I can’t so the next best thing I can do is to post about it so as to at least spread the word of this looming disaster.
Theodore Dalrymple’s piece is horrifying, but it is only part of the story. The big city/immigrant story. But if you think the rest of France is tranquil and agreeable, you would be wrong. Today’s native French youth is not nice, either. In the rural areas – those pretty French villages, they are rude, aggressive and destructive, and that’s just the girls. They have money, they’re ill-educated, and they’re bored, bored, bored. Their summer holiday is three months long. During the rare term time, their teachers have constant strike days. Then there’s endless Wednesday and Saturday afternoons to be filled, and the parents have simply abdicated control.
Also, the children are mobile today. A generation ago, they would have had to cycle a long way – six or seven miles – to the next village, and the same distance back. So it didn’t happen and the villagers knew all the children in the village and could hold them to account. Today, for some totally lunatic reason, children of 12 have motorised scooters – the equivalent of Vespas. Not only is the noise unbearable as they ride up and down the tiny village streets, gunning their engines out of boredom, but this has made them much too mobile. Also, they don’t need licence plates. They are now free to roam the countryside anonymously, with their safety helmets on – and an equal number of them are girls. Mobility and mobile phones – a deadly combination, because they arrange rendezvous, so 15 or 20 of them may turn up in a village, unidentifiable, and behave antisocially – throwing rocks at church windows, sprinkling paint on cars – the whole vandalism bit – and mocking and jeering at people going about their business. People have given up calling the gendarmes because, no one can identify the kids. Stealing and burning cars is also very big in this part of the country, and has developed into a “tradition” at Christmas.
And to those who think early exposure to wine at the table ensures a good attitude to moderation, these kids drink either a combination of tequila and beer in a can, or whisky out of a bottle
Meanwhile, the economy is not just moribund, but sinking and the French are unable to think outside the box. They just can’t. Unaccustomed to having rights, they tolerate a fascist phone company and electricity company and banks which treat customers with contempt. No one can admit making an error. It is enervating to try to fight them because they simply don’t understand that a customer has rights. No one will make a decision. In fact, the goal is to go through one’s entire career without once making a decision or once being noticed.
Add to this that France is a very expensive country to live in. France looks prosperous on the surface, but it’s in decline.
On the other hand, I do think that Marine Le Pen will attract tens of thousands of disaffected voters. The average French person is aware of the decline of the country and is baffled. But given that one-third of the workforce is a government worker of some sort and that they will continue to vote for the party that promises them further rises and privileges regardless of the economy, don’t expect any changes. Britain now has a public workforce of one-quarter.
The good things about France are rotting from the inside.
I wrote an article here in french:
http://www.pageliberale.org/article.php?aid=355
My conclusion:
Considering that there is NO capitalist/libertarian party in France, I’m back at packing my bags (or digging a mass grave)
Hmm, what people say when they want to send a message is different to where they stick the X when the moment of truth arrives. As for the antiglobos, they are too small a force to count. Centre-left, maybe, far left non.
Hello Hervé,
Always stunning (and worrying) to see that with different backgrounds and living in very different parts of France, we end up to the same conclusions, as far as the near future of our(?) country is concerned.
David: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Please wake me up when lights are switched off… I’m contemplating emigration to Londonistan or LA South Central.
In passing: cheers to Izlibittiyah II, the Satrap of the Islamic Sultanate of Koranic Britanniyah & Palestinised Ireland.
France is a stable democratic capitalist country with an admittedly large public sector. The size of its economy is roughly on a par with Britain’s. Its productivity levels are even higher. There has always been a constituency for the extreme left and right. Actually, support for the extreme left is historically in decline (in the 70s the communists used to regularly get over 20% of the vote). As a long-time resident, let me assure you that this country is not about to collapse into civil war. France has many problems and many aspects of its political/economic system are in need of reform. The same could be said of Italy or Spain or Britain or any number of countries. I really don’t understand the libertarian obsession with this country and your need to construct utterly unrealistic prognoses of imminent catastrophe. I sometimes wonder if any of you have actually spent any time here or have ever read a French newspaper. You’d serve your cause much better if your approach to France and its problems was a little more measured and a little less breathlessly one-dimensional.
H – France is not a democracy. It is an oligarchy.
Verity, you’re making a whole bunch of ignorant presumptions… France’s democratic system may have elements of an oligarchy about it, but then show me a democracy which doesn’t. US presidency passing from father to son within a decade for instance? hmm…. Just the imperfect way human society works, I’d say.
As for your ridiculous assertions about mopeds (or mobilettes, or whatever the current cool term for them is), let me assure you, a generation ago (well… depends when you mean, but certainly since the early 80s anyway), French kids were riding mopeds, drinking tequila & indulging in petty vandalism. I know this because some of them were my friends. This is hardly some 21st century malaise… & if you think a few bored & unruly teenagers in the countryside mean the end of civilisation, God help the entire Western world, ‘cos we’ve *all* got plenty of ’em.
Technically, it’s a democracy. It may be oligarchic, but no more so than your average first-world country.
…Uh-huh. Nice link from Kim to Theodore Dalrymple’s article of vicious life in the ‘zones.
Trouble’s heading this way too… the Culture of Moron has been made possible by cowardly multiculturalism, where the traditional values of Law and Order have been downgraded as part of “cultural imperialsim”. Champaigne socialsists and chattering classes live in different universe as always, safely tucked away in their suburbia while we have to live in their social-darwinist experiment gone horribly wrong.
But one day the mob will invade their shires and they will reap what they have sown.
Heh, I suspect it’s not as libertarian thing, it’s a Brit thing. We’ve had a grudge against the French since Guillaume le Conquerant. Statistically, if you were to ask “with whom is Britain at war?”, your best answers would be: France, Scotland, Ireland. Plus ca change…
Julian Morrison is right, but for the rank-order:
France, Scotland, Spain, Netherlands… would be my guess. England has been at war in Ireland a lot but not with Ireland, just with disaffected bits of it.
France is way ahead of the league. But then it has been a superpower for most of the last 1000 years, so it would be astonishing if it didn’t have a few conflicts along the way with its consistently strongest (if usually relatively weaker) neighbour.
As a long-time resident, let me assure you that this country is not about to collapse into civil war.
Considering the legendary denial and self-delusion of the Frogs (we were all part of the Resistance! Really!), this could either be true or total bullshit. So we either get a more stable France (which is a good thing) or a total implosion (which I would enjoy just because I think the French deserve it, and it would be an excellent display of the failures of statism and socialism).
Win-win, for me.
A_t, Well thank goodness you’ve turned acidic again. As to my ignorant assumptions … Are you saying the phenomenon of Jimmy Carter is proof of oligarchy in real democracies? How about Bill Clinton – or does his stepfather having had the only Buick dealership in Hope count as special influence? Harry Truman? Ronald Reagan? Arnold Schwarzenegger? All from the chosen class?
In Britain, Margaret Thatcher, a corner grocer’s daughter? John Major, who failed a job application to be a bus conductor? John Prescott? Michael Howard, whose parents are immigrants from Transylvania? What areyou talking about?
France is in the hands of the ruling few. America, Britain and Australia are not.
I do not think a few, or a mass, of bored teenagers is the end of the world. Of course not. But what is unsettling is the reluctance to take control of them. The French are sick to death with the loss of law and order and civility. They’re sick of the endless strikes. They hate America. They eye Britain warily. Germany is their best friend, but they don’t trust the Germans. They’ve started cleaving to W Africa. In other words, there is a sense of loss of control. Chirac makes one of his triumphal progresses through N Africa and is greeted not by admiring, cheering crowds, but by mobs shouting, “Visas!” There is a sense that something is wrong. The TGV and their roads and highways, as outstanding as they truly are, can only go so far in instilling national confidence.
Uh-Oh
Liberté, egalité, bankruptcy
http://www.techcentralstation.com/102403E.html
Oh and David, for your polyglottal edification, it’s not force du frappe, but rather force de frappe.
Alex Forshaw: Considering how they (the French) are an enemy of the United States, and the EU is evolving into an enemy of the United States (…)
It’s funny that since 9/11 the USA finds enemies everywhere & no friend at all (& don’t mention the Islamic Koranate of Griiiiit Britniyyah). Although enemies are proliferating, none of them has been found so far. What on earth is Oussama Ben Bush doing?
BTW: you superb performance in the rugby world cup was breathtaking >>> France = 41 – USA = 14. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaun Bourke: I have commented previously that the ultimate end for the EU is a civil war (…)
Oh is it? And how do you call this war during which 19 men only aided by forks & knives changed the WTC into a bunch of ruins?
Verity: And to those who think early exposure to wine at the table ensures a good attitude to moderation, these kids drink either a combination of tequila and beer in a can, or whisky out of a bottle.
A comparative European study of drinking among 15-16-year-olds (ESPAD) showed that UK figures for alcohol consumption were some of the highest in Europe alongside Ireland and Denmark.
Dear Alfred The Would-Be Troll: I find your comments rather succinct, flabby, boring & not even funny… Are you feeling all right?
Kodiak: You are talking gibberish. Pull yourself together, man.
By the way, have you noticed the remarks of the dissident frogman (and the link he provided) and of Hervé Duray? Perhaps you may consider unleashing your shining wit at them?
It’s sad, it’s terrifying, yet it’s been totally predictable. Socialism doesn’t work as we all know very well (some of us more than others).
As I keep saying, could someone liberate us, too? And don’t stop in Paris, please!
“..as young French people, seduced by the anti-globalisation movement and cynical about conventional politics, flocked to the extremes…”
Whereas ours flock to apathy or the Liberal Democrats.
What is happening to France is simply one manifestation of the decline of the West, including the US. Fukuyama, as usual, was wrong. The West will bring itself down, with no need for any external threat. (A ragtag bunch of Islamists does not compose a serious external threat.) The evidence is displayed every day in the stories presented on this blog, as well as elsewhere. One day history exams will contain the question: “The West was the wealthiest, most powerful and dynamic civilisation that has ever existed, yet it too went under. Discuss.”
Hmm.
Ok Ghaleon, I’ll bite.
The major problem with Canada is that has some incredibly loose immigration laws coupled with insane refugee laws. There are literally thousands of potential terrorists living in Canada that cannot be tracked or found by the Canadian authorities. We’ve already seen at least two attempts at terrorism by people who hold Canadian passports. Including one fellow was actually supposed to be deported from Canada.
Fact is that a major terrorist attack is going to happen. There are too few safeguards in the Canadian system and America has been far too forgiving of Canadian lapses. Additionally I’d like to point out that a number of Canadian cities adjunct American ones along the border. A massive attack on a Canadian city will obviously have an impact on the corresponding American one.
But the real danger is that terrorists will enter into Canada after having destroyed their idenfying documents. Then claim refugee status. This allows them to enter into Canada WITHOUT any identifying documents at which point they are interviewed and a new set of temporary documents are given to them. After this they are required to report in at a later date but they are allowed to go anywhere at this point. They can even apply for welfare, which is amazing to me.
Or they can just infiltrate the border and stage an attack.
Frankly if this happens then I, for one, believe that you can kiss that border goodbye. Our politicians have been pretty craven on the matter of border control but if anyone thinks the American people will stand for another major attack, and one staged through our northern border, is out of their minds.
What exactly will happen I don’t know. But the minimum would be the absolute closing of the border. Something that would totally destroy the Canadian economy.
Something to consider. Eh?
ed
Forgive me for an extremely rare outbreak of Francophilia, but I cannot quite get all that excited about the latest example of those awful Frenchies going down the pan. I think this is becoming a bit of a stuck record, to be honest.
I have heard and read some pretty awful things going on in the French inner cities, but let’s be honest – that could be the same story for any major European/American town you care to mention.
I have been to France too many times and had too many wonderful experiences there to believe that country cannot pull itself up again. What we libertarians should be doing is figuring out how to spread the message to the folk who can actually make a difference there.
That’s my centime’s worth, anyway.
Johnathan,
You’ve every right to defend pauvre France, but let’s not get carried away shall we? If half the things spoken of in the article Kim linked to are true (and you appear not to be casting doubt on its veracity) then I can confidently say nothing of the sort exists in the US. Do we have problems in our cities? You bet. But we did not custom build slums on their outskirts in which we warehouse millions of undigestible, highly combustible immigrants. Our immigrants come from all over the world, not just a corner of it we used to own; and whether they arrive legally or illegally they tend to spread out to suburban and rural locales as well as in cities–wherever there is work (which happens to be just about everywhere–funny that).
So try another smear, Mr. Pearce, cause this particular one won’t stick.
I’m sure others have have had the same thought:
I wonder if the novel, ‘A Clockwork Orange’, by Anthony Burgess, will become as prophetic as Orwell’s ‘1984’ has proved to be.
In the film, the scenes of teenage violence were quite nasty, and the favourite comment was, yes, you guessed it, ‘That could never happen here’. Well now we do have it, and it seems to have been caused by exactly the same circumstances as described in the book.
http://www.clockworkorange.com/
A quote that stood out as being rather appropriate for this site, was:
“Alex’s voice(-over) gloats: ‘I was cured all right.’ A vindication of free will had become an exaltation of the urge to sin. I was worried.”
Certainly gives pause for thought, if a ‘pure’ libertarian philosophy were ever adopted.
>>France = 41 – USA = 14 HA HA<< Don't know a single American who even knows all the rules to rugby, let alone has ever played it, so I'd say that's a rather good showing. Haven't seen too many Frenchmen in MLB, the NFL, NBA, etc. >>But the minimum would be the absolute closing of the border<< Wow, you know that for sure, eh? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you were one of those people who were fully expecing the U.S. to nuke Saudia Arabia or Pakistan or wherever two Septembers back. I wonder, what do you imagine the maximum would be, then? And do you honestly think that the U.S. economy would be unphased by this?
woah Kelli, where was the “smear”… would you deny that the US has racially segregated ghettos where the law counts for a lot less than it should do? I don’t give a damn if they’re hidden out of town, or given the run-down middle of town, the effect’s about the same. I’ve seen some pretty nasty ‘projects’ in the States, & I’ve hardly sought out the most run-down areas. If you believe this evil ‘smear’ on the US has no basis, then please take an unarmed stroll through certain areas of say, Brooklyn Queens or perhaps downtown Detroit & tell me you feel safe, & that the people in these areas have never been deliberately marginalised.
The “nique la police” slogan is directly derived from NWA’s “fuck da police”, yet to suggest this amounts to a smear?
Adriana,
If I had to choose, I’d prefer to read near-humorous Davidian prose rather than TDF’s tedious loggorhea (or his “links” courtesy of Merde in France or any other brainwashed bushist myth-making factory).
Hervé Duray? Whozzzzit?
Evan McElravy,
France = 41 – USA = 14 HA HA
Don’t know a single American who even knows all the rules to rugby, let alone has ever played it, so I’d say that’s a rather good showing. Haven’t seen too many Frenchmen in MLB, the NFL, NBA, etc.
Yep Evan, rugby is like nation-building*: what’s the point of competing in an area which you are sure to be ridiculous in?
*actually nation-destroying would be far mor accurate: the USA is this world champion in that field
actually nation-destroying would be far mor accurate: the USA is this world champion in that field
And proud of it. Look at the list of nations (really, regimes) we simplisme Americans have destroyed –
1. Nazi Germany
2. Soviet Russia
3. Fascist Italy
4. Imperial Japan
5. Baathist Iraq
6. Sandinista Nicaragua
I can’t think of a group of regimes more deserving of destruction. And I would point out that all 6 are the better off for having their regimes removed by the Americans.
I think the Americans can also take credit for destroying the Milosevic regime eagerly bent on replaying the Holocaust in the Balkans. Its a shame the postwar was consigned to the UN, or we could probably count the Balkans as another success story in the making now. Sadly, UN custody of the region is having predictable results – stagnation and quagmire.
It is too bad, really, that the Americans did not succeed in destroying the regimes of North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, and Cuba, as they wanted to do. Given the dismal state of these nations, they would doubtless be better off today.
America may not have always done the best job of picking its friends, but we have a keen eye for enemies.
A_T,
Hey, I live in DC, you don’t need to tell me there are scary scary sections of American cities. What’s the difference between us and France? Since the decline of the Black Panthers in the 70s and 80s, there’s no open warfare between powers of the state and forces representing the ghetto; most slumdwellers in the US are American born and have no qualm about demanding their full rights as citizens (as well they might); most of our housing projects date back to the 1940s and 50s, and are in the process as we speak here of being torn down and replaced by low density, mixed income housing which is both more desirable on every level AND less conducive to crime and unsocial behavior.
In other words, there’s a lot of work to be done, but the trend here is UP while in France it’s DOWN. Vive le difference!
R.C.,
You forgot someone, didn’t you? Between Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany–Vichy France. As they say in Quebec, je me souviens!
We have this from merdeinfrance:
Just seen in ‘Le Parisien’ dated 2 November, and available on their web site using the search engine. Two young French victims of society ‘snapped’. What’s that? Anyone can ‘lose it’ now and again.
A 20 year old woman was mugged Friday afternoon near the Chelles train station. Her principal attacker, a 35 year old resident, was arrested yesterday and booked this afternoon along with a 16 year old boy. Of Algerian origin, both were bothered by the fact that the woman wore earrings shaped like crucifixes. The oldest attacker, fondled her breasts and called her ‘whore’ in Arabic, and then took out a knife and cut her cheeks seven times.
Here’s to hoping that these two victims of society may overcome the humiliation that provoked this attack (what the hell was she thinking wearing crucifix shaped earrings during Ramadan in France? Is she insane?) and that they may successfully integrate themselves into French society. France is in dire need of their youthful vigor. Thanks to Mickaël.
Yeah, Sandy, nothing says “whore” like wearing crucifixes.
Its a shame they don’t allow concealed firearms carry in France, isn’t it?
there’s no open warfare between powers of the state and forces representing the ghetto
what would you call our rediculous war on drugs?
D.T. — there’s a lot to criticize in the war on drugs, but saying that’s the same thing as a war on the poorer classes doesn’t take into account the fact that opinion in the lower classes is overwhelmingly against legalization of drugs. they live with it everyday and they don’t want the police to stop cracking down on it. (I’ll try to find a link.) I’m afraid it’s only the chattering classes (and we all seem to be members of that) that think drugs should be legalized, because our experiences with the ravages of drug dealing simply aren’t that up close and personal.
As for taking out the force de frappe – that’s not easy. France has four SSBNs and an undisclosed number (>60) of air-launched devices (they used to have gravity bombs but have moved to stand-off weapons). The land based component of the force has been decommissioned.
To take out the subs simultaneously would be well nigh impossible. First off, they would need to be tracked all the time. SSBNs are very good at evading tracking. Their destruction would have to be co-ordinated with at the very least massive special forces raids on the airfields housing the three nuclear-capable squadrons (but possibly tac nuke strikes from B-2s), and would have to be sudden and swift (perhaps nuclear depth charges). The Charles de Gaulle would have to be sunk simultaneously so as to avoid the chance of its nuclear-capable Super Etentards being launched. You’d have to be prepared to lose several US and UK cities at worst. Probably at best you’d lose a couple of carriers to ASMP+ missiles that made it through the defences.. French death toll would likely be in the tens to hundreds of thousands.
When the French had their land-based force and only a couple of SSBNs, it might have been feasible to take them out. But until a really reliable theatre-level ballistic missile defence system is in place they’re untouchable. And we would have to be on the brink of all-out war if the above scenario were to be played out (we’d for sure be at all-out war afterwards). It’s a really ugly situation. Like all SSBN-based deterrence systems, the French nuclear force is based on second-strike capability. If just one of the SSBNs survived, it could deliver 150 kT warheads onto 96 targets (192 in the case of a Triomphant class sub).
I was a military warden a few years back, and I’ve heard detainees themselves bemoan their inability to get over their addiction, costing them pain and money. I’ve also heard quite a few instances where a drug user got away with using drugs for a prolonged period of time, yet was still able to carry out his work effectively.
I’m really of two minds on the drug legalization issue. One side insists that legalization of drugs will no longer make them so expensive on the black market, which will enable addicts to function normally in society. Another side, the side which sees Holland, shudders(though I also believe that Holland’s problems may not be due to the drug issue at all).
R. C. Dean: I’m deeply sorry I’ve got to redress your unilateralopathic list.
1. Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany
2. Soviet Union, thanks to the impulse given by Solidarnosc & the pope, collapsed itself.
3. Fascist Italy was a joke occupied by Nazi Germany: see 1.
4. Imperial Japan was defeated thanks to Hiroshima & Nagasaki, two instances of Crimes against Humanity.
5. Postbaassist Iraq is defeating the USA everyday (BTW, tell Dale to adjust his We are winning ! chart to take the shot helicopter into account. Merci.)
6. Nicaragua is indeed a great US feat: how to kill a small, innocent people who democratically decided their destiny.
You mentioned the Balkans? Clinton –whom you seem to support- claimed it would take a mere couple of days for the USA to wipe out Yugoslavian troops deployed in Kosovo. However the asymmetric US air force proved utterly worthless when confronted to Milosevic’s highly mobile, dissimulating infantry & artillery. Actually it took 78 days before the US army were able to inflict Milosevic’s troops anything vaguely resembling damage. That’s why the US military ineptitude couldn’t have the Yugoslavian surrender: the efficient Russian diplomacy had Milosevic capitulate in the end.
North Korea? Still flouting US army & defeating US “diplomacy”.
Vietnam? A brave, victorious, illustrious, martyr, heroic country who defeated, ridiculed & crushed you. In spite of all the napalm you dumped on them.
But on the list, the Sioux, Apaches, Iroquois, Hurons, Comanches, Micmacs, Cheyennes, Algonquins, Séminoles etc should undoubtedly rank first. Living in tribes is indeed a bad kind of régime.
Oops sorry: I forgot to mention the Africans you captured, deported, enslaved, raped & killed.
Kelli needs unbrainwashing.
Here we go.
Why not commence with Brenton Harbor (2003) ?
And what about Cincinnati (2001) ?
LA (1991): Rodney King was awfully beaten by 4 racist LAPD officers. The videoed crime caused racial, ethnic and social riots in LA. The eventual acquittal of all 4 racist criminals provoked 6 days of riots and rebellion and the resignations of each of those: LA’s mayor & chief of police and the LA county district attorney.
And now let’s go to Florida. We find Miami (1989) .
Now Miami (1982): Nevell Johnson, a black man, was mortally wounded by a police officer in a Miami video arcade, setting off three days of race-related disturbances that left another man dead.
The list is certainly impressive but I shouldn’t forget though to mention the Miami riots dated May of 1980.
More for Kelli about LA & Miami’s failures to improve .
Sandy P.: what you’re reporting is la rubrique des chiens écrasés. I thought you were more an ideologue when ***trying*** to fight France. Merde in France ? Well, merde à toi, Sandy: having an adversary of your “quality” is near insulting…
David Gillies: perhaps will your sensible approach help our favourite Samizdiens to calm down a bit…
David Gillies,
Before WW2 the French had a very impressive (on paper) Maginot line.
Jacob: before Iraq 2003 the US had a very impressive (on paper) computerised force de frappe.
David Gillies,
From Presidental Directive to entire Froggie Nuclear Sub fleet sunk…..15mins. Considering how off the wall the Froggie regime has been and the obvious direction it its following I would expect ALL Froggie Nuclear delivery capable equipment to be under close and constant surveillance.
Churchill sunk part of the Froggie Navy early on in WW2……..rememder ??
Since the U.S. Government has reaquired “First Strike” concepts, well…..
Kodiak,
It is quite fitting that you would be a supporter of Rodney King….just your type really, an habitual criminal and serial woman basher much in the same vain as your good buddies in the muslim brotherhoods…..nooo ??
I would guess that the word “Maginot Line” translates to “Imaginary Line” in English.
Every country the Froggies have conquered they have turned into a shithole, and when they leave, usually at the point of the gun, a raging war is in progress !!
Kodiak,
The abandonment of the slave trade by the Americans almost 150yrs ago is NOT a Froggie notion or concept, but one started by the British and greatly expanded upon by the Americans. Indeed many Froggie ships operated in this trade over the course of centuries making handsome profits.
Actually, Froggieland to this day is a supporter of the slave trade as it continues to strongly support various States, especially in Africa and the Middle East, who provide shelter and bases of operation for those running this sordid business.
Pardon me, but did Kodiak just claim that the United States no longer has nuclear capability?
Kodiak, I can appreciate your problems in a different language, but it really looks like your posts are random words strung together.
John, it really seems that way, doesn’t it. And it’s getting worse. It reminds me of an angry teenager. When you know nothing, you can only define yourself by opposing anything and everything. So goes Kodiak, contradicting and criticizing and going negative on absolutely anything and everything for the most fanciful, random, ranting reasons. Conspiracy theories are the norm, facts optional, history a boring novel to be rewritten. And like those angry pimply kids, he probably thinks that makes him look smart and educated.
At this stage, I am finding it a bit sad. Clearly, all the guy can do to get attention is to be a parasite on someone else’s blog. Writing one being definitely beyond his skills, although he obviously has the time.
I had never seen this level of trolling before. The guy is Darwin Awards’ material.
The Rodney King incident is an excellent example of deliberate distortion of a story. The FULL videotape clearly shows a very large strong man who was out of control on drugs and who attacked the police first.
I used to live in the LA area and remember the huge problem that a small number of PCP addicts caused there. While on the drug they are totally irrational and, without any inhibitions, are enormously strong and often don’t remember a thing about their actions later.
King had charged the officers and attacked them several times before they got him down. I don’t excuse beating a suspect, but this guy was like a wild animal and had put them at real risk of major bodily harm. The portion of the tape that was actually aired, again and again, leaves out that part and only shows the response of those police.
The media in LA were already very against the then-police chief when this incident happened. They had a field day. Also against Gates was the black mayor of the time, Tom Bradley who was a media darling. Bradley seems to have been a nice person but he was a disaster as mayer. Previously a police chief himself, he undercut all of Gates’ attempts to reform the police force he inherited from Bradley. The force was way too small to patrol the size of that city and the upper layers had many Bradley hangers-on who were politically safe from any accountability. As the city became less and less liveable due to virtually no effective policing, drug use and gang wars spiralled out of control.
THAT is the background behind the King incident.
There’s lots to be said about the reasons for black poverty in parts of the LA area. Some portion of the responsibility for that lies in the black community itself, for insisting on middle-class jobs like the ones Bradley made for friends in the police force, without also insisting on responsible performance of those jobs. I watched the quality of schools and the streets deteriorate during that period. It didn’t have to be that way … as manual jobs gave way to the information economy, that community could have responded by embracing quality education and insisting on orderly neighborhoods and stable family systems.
And yes – it is possible to emerge even from those areas as a responsible member of society. I recently taught an impressive young man who lived with his divorced mother in the very worst parts of South Central for most of his life. He made it out with a little help, but mostly due to the clear values his mother taught.
Kodiak:
“1. Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany”
France was very lucky she was liberated by the US, not by the USSR, else her fate would have been like that of Poland, Romania, Hungary or Chechoslovakia.
“Jacob: before Iraq 2003 the US had a very impressive (on paper) computerised force de frappe”
Would you like to try a match ? US vs. France ?
Jacob, I think what Kodiak meant is that The USSR did all the work. The US and the UK did nothing. He’s made that point before. As for France, we all know it liberated itself. It’s part of his litany. The guy is a cult of one, and the more he preaches, the more faith he has in his own nonsense.
However, none of this has anything to do with the main topic here. As usual when Kodiak gets involved. The guy is so confused he just needs to drive everything back to his own pointless personal little vendetta with big bad America.
We were talking about France. What does Rodney King have to do with it ? Or Iraq ? Or World War 2 ? Nothing. Except poor disturbed Kodiak craves attention and recognition; since he can’t get it through constructive reason and rational participation, he just burps out nonsensical, contradictory, incoherent verbiage sprinkled with his own little pet peeves.
There is no rhyme nor reason to it. Don’t bother looking. It’s fun provoking and pushing him once in a while to see how deep he’ll bury himself but unless that’s what you’re looking for, it’s a rather pointless exercise, as you probably knew before I even ran into the fool myself. The guy thinks being against anything you say makes him look smart and sophisticated. You’ll say the sky is blue, he’ll call you stupid for not knowing it’s green with yellow dots.
His kind is actually common in some French circles of intellectual wannabes. People who can’t compete in serious conversations will fake knowledge and intellectualism by pedantically scoffing at everything, summarily dismissing anything they either misunderstand or don’t understand, belittling and insulting people who have different views and generally wasting everybody else’s time by flaunting their ignorance and gullibility for hours on end.
The true mystery is in their inability to spot the entertaining depth of their own buffoonery.
In a way, I grant Kodiak some usefulness though. His being pissed off at a post about France usually confirms that it’s broadly true and on target. As for his drivel, it’s a fine, if concentrated, sample of the kind of idiotarian attitude that is part of the problem there and in other parts.
In other words, the guy is a living proof, the best caricature one could dream of to prove the point being made in the post above and others before it.
Not to paraphrase Hillary, but maybe it takes a village idiot…
Sylvain Galineau: Yours is the best available description of Kodiak and a comprehensive summary of his sorry presence in this blog’s comments section.
I must admit his incandescent gibberish can be amusing, apart from the fact that it too often diverts attention from the main points of the posts he choses to ‘grace’ with his outpourings.
And we are awed by your patience.
Maybe he was trying to say that *Iraq’s* nuclear force only existed in American computers. That might actually be a clever thing to say.
Ah well.
The bit about the last French presidential election that really strikes me is that LePen scored about 16% in the first round and 18% in the second. Honestly, that doesn’t sound like “protest votes” to me, but a lot of people seem to think they were. I was wondering if anyone had some anecdotes to the contrary.
Jacob: France was very lucky she was liberated by the US, not by the USSR, else her fate would have been like that of Poland, Romania, Hungary or Chechoslovakia.
I didn’t say the contrary. Still without victorious Soviet Union, the US would have never set sail to Normandy with even the slightest skiff.
“Jacob: before Iraq 2003 the US had a very impressive (on paper) computerised force de frappe”
Would you like to try a match ? US vs. France ?
No, I wouldn’t of course. I wouldn’t like France to duplicate Hiroshima & Nagasaki & bear the burden of the fault before Humanity for the generations to come. I’m not too sure the US isn’t willing to repeat this kind of atrocities (with mininukes for instance).
Shaun Bourke: Actually, Froggieland to this day is a supporter of the slave trade as it continues to strongly support various States, especially in Africa and the Middle East, who provide shelter and bases of operation for those running this sordid business.
I feel certain you’ll have no problems at all to substantiate your assertion. Thank you in advance.
>I wouldn’t like France to duplicate Hiroshima & Nagasaki & bear the burden of the fault before Humanity for the generations to come.
I prefer the burden of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to the burden of a disgraceful surrender to fascists.
Yaaawn…. let’s get over WWII all round guys… things were slightly different back then; how much of our countries are like they were then? Our leaders? Our people? Our culture? hmm…. nope!
& as for the “the French gave in to the Nazis” thing, they were overpowered. That was clear. What would you have liked them to do? Fight to the bitter end, resulting in the devastation of their major cities & the deaths of thousands, with the same final outcome?
If the Brits hadn’t been lucky enough to have a f***-off great body of water as natural defense, they would have fared no better. No matter how much good-will & courage they had, there’s no way in hell they were a match for the German army at that time.
John Nowak – Amen to your Nagasaki post.
Le Pen. A lot of people who voted for Le Pen are middle class and not in the employ of the state. France is an oligarchy, meaning no one in the main parties rises from the grass roots. They are all in the same exclusive circle and they are distanced from everyday concerns. The things that bother the (non government employed) voters. Le Pen came up by himself, which is one reason he is looked down upon by the political elite. He didn’t go to the right schools. He speaks with a regional accent. He made a virtue of this, sometimes being intentionally crude to emphasis his distance from the ruling elite.
He said many things that touched the non-government employed voter. He is from Languedoc-Rouissillon, a very poor region. He disapproves of the fact that so many British and other N Europeans have bought holiday homes there, or have retired there. They have paid over the odds for housing, pricing young locals out of the property market. He says the expatriates have turned the region into a land of cleaners and waiters. Many people agree with this, but the elite political leadership of France is too snooty to confront these issues.
He is anti-immigration, but, as above, that includes the Brits and N Europeans as well as the Muslims. In other words, he confronts (or confronted, as he’s leaving the scene) issues that other candidates were disdainful of addressing, yet which the voters wanted aired. He wants France out of the EU.
I think his daughter Marine, who has rubbed some of the rough edges off the platform and is working at becoming more acceptable as a candidate that people will actually admit voting for, will make some headway. No one ever admitted voting for Le Pen – yet he got 18% of the vote. Sorry about the long post.
What would you have liked them to do? Fight to the bitter end, resulting in the devastation of their major cities & the deaths of thousands, with the same final outcome?
Yes. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Besides, who is to say the French would have lost? Their army was larger and better armed than the Germans. Military historians place fault for the French defeat almost entirely on poor leadership. Where the French stood and fought they actually did rather well, and invented on the fly the basic infantry anti-armor “hedgehog” tactics still in use today.
The Russians certainly did their part in WWII, but if it were not for the necessity of manning the Western Front it is quite likely they would have been overwhelmed. The Germans came very, very close to beating the Russians, or at least establishing defensible lines that would have prevented a Russian victory.
Thank God the Russians didn’t take A-t’s advice and give in when things looked bad, because things got much worse for the Russians than they ever did for the French.
John Nowak: I prefer the burden of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to the burden of a disgraceful surrender to fascists.
Well you don’t have to prefer anything for your State has decided at your place. Besides, linking the struggle against fascism with dropping A-bombs onto civilians is really perverse. Everybody knows (including Eisenhower) that Japanese civilians needn’t be sacrificed to win the war.
John: you are either sick or ignorant.
A_t: If the Brits hadn’t been lucky enough to have a f***-off great body of water as natural defense, they would have fared no better.
I agree.
And the UK army was such a bunch of cowards that they fled like wimps away from Dunkerque (Dunkirk) instead of fighting the better equipped, better organised, outnumbering Nazis. The French army weekly loss between 1939 & 1940 was higher than what was endured at Verdun (biggest atrocity of WW1).
Verity: Le Pen came up by himself (…)
False. Mitterrand (a former collabo) created him (politically at least).
He (Le Pen) is from Languedoc-Rouissillon, a very poor region.
Archifalse. First it is Languedoc-Roussillon, & second the region is not poor at all. On top of that, Le Pen is from Bretagne (Britanny or Brittany: I don’t know the spelling). Completely the opposite (close to the Channel Islands) from LR (close to Marseilles & Barcelona).
He (Le Pen) disapproves of the fact that so many British and other N Europeans have bought holiday homes there, or have retired there.
Le Pen is a shit embodiement but I don’t recall him talking like that. Where did you fish this idea?
Adriana, you are too kind.
As for my patience, well, the last time he pulled one of these on my blog, I eventually told him to get lost so I guess your awe could be slightly misplaced. I tried. It was obviously a waste of time but I did.
He does mess with the noise-to-substance ratio around here though. But that’s only because the rest of us allow him to. For that, I feel a bit guilty and shall focus on the more interesting material from now on.
>What would you have liked them to do? Fight to the bitter end, resulting in the devastation of their major cities & the deaths of thousands, with the same final outcome?
I’d like to think I would. And if I hadn’t I sure as hell wouldn’t lecture on someone else’s national honor.
>Well you don’t have to prefer anything for your State has decided at your place.
So?
>Besides, linking the struggle against fascism with dropping A-bombs onto civilians is really perverse.
Translation: “My name is Kodiak, and I don’t have a clue how WWII was won.”
>Everybody knows (including Eisenhower) that Japanese civilians needn’t be sacrificed to win the war.
What a bizarre comment.
>John: you are either sick or ignorant.
No, Kodiak — you’re simply a fool and a dupe.
Pauvre petit Sylvain. Sniff… Life’s unfair to you: your reap what you sow.
John Nowak: you might want to read this in French or in English.
The author, Jean-Marie Matagne, also called the Conseil Constitutionnel to invalidate Chirac & Jospin’s candidacies for 2002 presidency as both had deliberately broken the nuclear non-proliferation agreement.
Verity —
Thanks very much for the post.
I think part of the situation may be that there’s a big disconnect between what people perceive from their friends and what’s really going on; there’s an interesting book called “Frauen” with interviews with women who lived in Germany under the Third Reich. About half of them said “Everyone knew about the camps and anyone who disagrees is a liar;” the other half says “Nobody knew about the camps and anyone who disagrees is a liar.”
I don’t believe anyone’s lying there; everyone tends to assume their circle of acquaintances is typical, when it might not be.
At any rate, it would be good to see a capitalist / libertarian party evolve in France, especially if it can hold its position.
Great link there, Kodiak. Amazing that she declared the bombing unnecessary giving a single word to describe what happened in the Japanese government.
She did, however, try to shock us by explaining that the attack was rehearsed! Horror! It was actually part of a plan!
Seriously, Kodiak, do any of the people you associate with have a brain in their heads?
Kodiak, I’m not a student of Le Pen and don’t follow his fortunes, so have no idea where he was born. But he has a very big base in Marseilles and I think he operates, or operated, as he is now retired, out of Marseilles. I know middle class people who look shifty, before denying it, when asked if they would ever vote for Le Pen. He got 18% of the vote. If no one in France voted for him, that’s a lot of dead people from Chicago.
Verity: I’m no lepenologist either >>> it was just what everyone knows here. Le Pen lives in Saint-Cloud* (ie: département n° 92 = Hauts-de-Seine, quite different Parisian suburb from neighbouring neuf-trois = n° 93 = Seine-Saint-Denis where your most hysterical fears about France might actually be originate from). He’s indeed currently campaigning for PACA regional council (Provence-Alpes-Côte-d’Azur) where he aims to win protesting, poujadiste, they-all-are-rotten-to-the-core votes. We’ll see. Anyway his typical voting scores in PACA are roughly ranging from 15 % to 30 % (even 40 % in some areas).
*Le Pen’s “acquired” his St-Cloud home as he embezzled it from a FN-member’s inheritance…
John Nowak: SHE ???
man… i love the way all of you are capable of characterizing an entire *people* on the basis of the behaviour of their governments during WWII. Just great, coming from a bunch of people who claim to believe in free will & individual freedom.
I skimmed through the 74 comments without reading them all so I apologise if someone else made these points.
Hundreds of French libertarians moan all the time about how the US is better, they should put sellotape over their mouths and try doing something about it, even emigrating en masse would be preferable.
The French Trotskyist parties that have merged came nowhere in the presidential elections of 2002, when Jean-Marie Le Pen’s nationalist party came second.
And finally, wait for the inevitable split: dissidents will emerge in both parties opposed to union, so we’ll have three Troskyist parties.
How do you think these two got started in the first place?
“You reap what you sow”.
Now, Kodiak, that sounds awfully simplistic and Bush-like to me.
You are with Kodiak, or against Kodiak.
He’s a sophisticated guy, you know. Not one of us dumb cowboys.
Yawn.
Anyway.
Hundreds of French libertarians moan all the time about how the US is better, they should put sellotape over their mouths and try doing something about it, even emigrating en masse would be preferable.
They do both. Some are organizing (Sabine Herold and her gang bein a recent example). Others move to the UK and the US or wherever else they can have the life they want.
Actually, that is probably why we hear them so little. Most of them leave. It’s hard enough to be a libertarian and “work the system” to “do something about it”, it’s even harder in a place like France where the State is everywhere, all the time, and you can’t earn or spend any amont of money without paying some form of tax. Same for Nordic countries. Every time I have met libertarian Norwegians, they lived overseas.
Makes sense to me.
Sylvain: (…) in a place like France where the State is everywhere, all the time (…)
I note a promising change in your approach as you use a capital S to spell “State”…
The State is everywhere everytime? Sylvain, there’s hope: there are still some natural functions or intimate activities that the Frogs are left alone with…
Your subjective outburst of Statophobia might actually apply rather to the US Police State that’s ominously interfering with your privacy anytime you need to move your little finger…
Adriana Cronin about Kodiak:
“I must admit his incandescent gibberish can be amusing…”
Kodiak is more than amusing. He is fairly representative of how a vast number of people think (or fail to think), and not only in France – also in Britain and the US and other countires.
Therefore I welcome his presence here.
There is no point in calling him names or cursing him. You are not forced to read his comments or respond to them.
Kodiak:
“Verity: Le Pen came up by himself (…)
False. Mitterrand (a former collabo) created him (politically at least).”
That was a gem.
Nice country France, producing more than it’s fair share of crooks, collaborators and fascists.
It’s good for you admit that.
Jacob: France is not an enlightened, happy-go-lucky cabaret where smart happy people are laughing all the time while bathing in champagne…
There are some problems too, including dark personalities like Mitterrand, Le Pen etc. Chirac isn’t of course an angel. But HE was elected by the citizens.
As for fascism, the USA is really not too bad at all in that field. France looks like a clown in comparison.
Sorry Sylvain: I’m always reluctant to read your “prose” with due attention & I often forget to address the best of it, such as the following: (…) Others probably meant millions of French libertarians move to the UK and the US or wherever else they can have the life they want (sic). (…) Most of them leave (resic).
In what kind of world are you living Sylvain? Do you still know what a French looks like? Can you even speak French?
In your case, it’s not paranoïa. Rather acute self-brainwashing…
You’re killingly funny.
(sigh)
Kodiak, thank you kindly for pointing out the US “Police State”. It’s nice of you to inform all of us you have never lived in America and have no clue as to what you’re talking about. Well, we knew that but it’s always good to get from the horse’s mouth. (So to speak. I don’t mean to insult those fine animals so horse lover will kindly forgive me).
If you did have a clue, or ever lived there to see for yourself instead of parroting a state-approved party line, you’d know what I mean. Having grown up in France and, unlike you, been away from it long enough to be able to cast critical judgement on the old country, I can indeed make a comparison and a judgement based on a decade of experience, something that you will probably never have.
It is also nice of you to show the rest of us here that you are simply a plain old liar. You effectively quote me as saying “millions of French libertarians move to the UK and the US”. Anyone who can scroll up can verify I didn’t write any such thing. I wrote “Some are organizing. (…)Others move to the UK and the US or wherever else they can have the life they want. ”
What part of “some” and “others” is unclear to you ? In what English dictionary does either one mean “millions” ?
Just because *you* think I “probably” meant that, that constitutes enough of a fact for you to comment and judge on ? How low can you go ? I know you have no arguments to stand on but man, this is truly and utterly lame. Having to rewrite or wildly speculate on meaning in order to be able to criticize a simple, true statement is very sad.
And yes, for the record, I remember what the average French person is like, if only because I was there two weeks ago : a lot smarter, more interesting and honest than you, and poorer and less fortunate than myself and the others who left to seek opportunities elsewhere.
This is officially that last time I engage, or answer you. You have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you deserve neither my time, nor my respect. My mistake for believing otherwise.
Sylvain: (…) been away from it long enough to be able to cast critical judgement on the old country (…)
Twice stupid assertion.
1/ You indeed have no clue of what France now is. It’s not your fault: you’re not there.
2/ How the hell do you know I’ve never been living abroad? Are you the new Madame Soleil?
Poor little thing: if you just took care not to f*** up the two neurones left that are banging in your empty skull, you’d see that the probably meant millions of French libertarians phrase is highlighted & inserted in your quoted logorrhea. The purpose was to overtly exaggerate the meaning of your sentence & making fun of it, because it is ridiculous anyway.
You’re so paranaoid & pretentious… It’s just unbelievable. Get some rest man.
(When he reacts like this, you know you’ve hit a raw nerve….)
First, calling anything and everyone stupid all the time makes you look stupid, Kodiak. Just so you know.
Second, if I don’t know what France is like anymore by virtue of having left then please accept you don’t know what America and the UK are like either since you don’t live there. And if you have lived there, then you don’t know what they are like today either since you have left, right ? I know your arbitrary rules apply only to others but that’s not how the rest of us see it. You can’t have it both ways, little man.
Third, you’re right. I don’t know where you’ve lived. But given your attitude, it’s rather easy to bet you haven’t lived anywhere else for any extended, significant period of time. People who have travelled a lot and lived abroad do not display your egregiously stereotypical bigotry. It just is incompatible with one another. And if you have lived abroad, it would actually make your case worse. Since you clearly learned nothing from it.
And thank you for confirming the point of your creative editing was to effectively produce a lie you could then pick on. That’s exactly what I said you did. You had to assume, to imagine I was saying something else in order to make fun of it. Which proves you had nothing to say but will stop at nothing for the sake of pedantically contradicting anything and everything in sight.
So if I get you right, anyone of us here can take any of your statements, “overtly” amplify and exaggerate them to a point where they’re obviously ridiculous and unrelated to their clear original intent – not that we could since everything you say is already so off the wall – and you will accept that as a valid argument ? I am sure others here will be happy to know that. This will undoubtedly improve the overall quality of the debate.
And thank you kindly for the final compliments. Because coming from you, they can only be taken as such. In fact, I am so pleased with them I will take them as an apology.
You’re right, life is so much easier when you can just imagine what people mean, and take it as fact. Sweet.
Over and out.
Hmm… So boring, but hey, here we go ! My cross tonight…
First, calling anything and everyone stupid all the time makes you look stupid, Kodiak.
PLEASE READ YOUR “POSTS” AGAIN, SWEETIE.
But given your attitude, it’s rather easy to bet you haven’t lived anywhere else for any extended, significant period of time. People who have travelled a lot and lived abroad do not display your egregiously stereotypical bigotry.
You are unknowingly (as usual) assuming three things:
1/ That what you’re saying is a rule.
2/ That there can be no exception to your “rule”
3/ That what you perceive as my “attitude” is actually me.
How babyish in all cases.
And thank you for confirming the point of your creative editing was to effectively produce a lie you could then pick on. That’s exactly what I said you did. You had to assume, to imagine I was saying something else in order to make fun of it.
I get a headache >>> shall I copypaste the answer I gave you 2 posts ago ?
Sylvain: you are talking like an old raving mother-in-law. (NB: try at least to be more succinct >>> Ce qui se concoit bien s’énonce clairement et les mots pour le dire viennent aisément).
Yes, Kodiak. I assumed logic and reason were the same everywhere. Silly me. I should have remembered that logic is relative.
But since you wish to persist in burying yourself and show your true colors on a simple point of reason, I will break my promise once again and take the bait one last time to spell it out clearly and simply for you.
Here are two statements :
A. Some Iraqi civilians were killed by American bombs.
B. Billions of Iraqi civilians were killed by American bombs.
According to you, the fact that statement B is so obviously untrue makes it “ridiculous” to believe statement A. Therefore, according to your logic, it is “ridiculous” to believe Iraqi civilians were killed by American bombs.
Thus, a simple, factually true statement has been here “overtly” amplified to such a point where it is untrue which, in your own words, proves the first statement to be “ridiculous”. If we can make it look ridiculous by rewriting it to our own fancy, therefore it must be ridiculous.
Bravo.
There. Is this short enough for your limited attention span ?
Of course, the conclusion to the reasoning above will be unacceptable to you. Of course Iraqi civilians were killed during the conflict. Well gee, who’s considering himself an exception to the rule now ?
Now let’s get back to my original statement. I said that “some” French libertarians move to the US and the UK. Which is factually correct, since I am one of them; and so are others I know. There is nothing here for you or anyone to deny. That’s just the way it is. Deal with it.
But of course, any fact that contradicts your world view must be somehow dismissed. So you come up with the following gem : since millions of French libertarians are not moving out of the country, therefore it is ridiculous to believe any of them are.
Which is not only blatantly false – not that false assertions ever bothered you -, but completely illogical. And the only point of this little exercise in relative logic is to support calling someone “stupid”. In other words, the end justify the means. I mean, if you need to make up a lie to reach the conclusion you want, why not go for it ?
Bravo again.
And speaking of rules.
You’re the one implying I am not qualified to say anything about today’s France because I no longer live there, while you can obviously make constant assertions about life in the US, the UK, their politics and economics even though you don’t live there.
Who’s making the rules now ? And who’s considering himself an exception to them ? Does it help to project your own problems on others ? Is this how you cope ?
A person who is so ready and willing to use such callously flawed logic to support their views cannot have an objective or even relevant view of the world. Anything goes. They will just mentally bend reality until it fits their established bias and prejudices. And if facts can’t be bent far enough, flawed arguments and lies will be made up as required by the situation.
Which leaves you few options.
One : admit you were wrong. This takes guts and intelligence, though, so I won’t hold my breath.
Two: deny you were wrong at all, as you have done so far, in a very revealing manner. In that inimitably weasely French style that makes us the envy of the world and the women wet all over. Like our infamous ex-Prime Minister Laurent Fabius who was “responsible but not guilty”.
Three: keep burping out more inconsistent, contradictory self-justifying nonsense, to my greatest enjoyment.
In advance, and whatever course of action you choose to follow, thank you.
I am sorry to recognise that france can defend itself ALONE with its “force de frappe” as you said… Sorry then if UK must ask USA to protect them, because everybody knows that english nuclear force is under control of USA… France is the alone independent country in the occidental camp…