Yesterday the Telegraph published an interesting account of life in Italy, namely Rome. The author opens his article with the following paragraph:
“How lucky you are to be living in Italy.” “That must be heaven.” “I do envy you.” If you live in Rome, as I do, you get used to comments like these. But you soon realise that the idyllic vision of Italy suffers from just one drawback: it is almost complete rubbish.
I must admit this caught my attention since Rome has long been my favourite place of escape for a long weekend. The scenery, food, wine, weather, shopping… Indeed, what’s there not to like?
For the first few months after you move here, all is indeed perfect. The sun is warm, the people are welcoming, the language is a joy, the food is delicious, the wine is cheap, and everyone is a pleasure to look at. You congratulate yourself on your wisdom and you pity your friends who are still locked up in their grey, northern offices.
The enchantment, however, does not last long:
But then you begin to realise that in this new paradise you face a major problem: it is virtually impossible to earn a living. Take Rome. To live here with a minimum of dignity (renting a small flat, eating out occasionally, but no car and no proper holidays), you need a good 3,000 euros a month pre-tax, say 1,800 euros post-tax (roughly £2,100 and £1,250 respectively). However modest this seems, it is not what you will get. While in the Anglo-Saxon world most adults expect to be able to live independently off their salaries, in Italy most don’t. They stay with their families. Indeed, a staggering 70 per cent of single Italian men between the ages of 25 and 29 live in subsidised comfort at home, where their meagre earnings do very nicely as pocket money. And when they do move out to the stability of marriage or cohabitation, it is generally into a flat that is provided by the family.
…after a while, you begin to appreciate the true cost of the many undoubted joys of living in Italy. You realise, for example, that the flip-side of the cheerful noise and chaos is the mind-boggling complication of life here, the Italian inability – no, refusal – to organise anything or to think ahead.
How does the EU fit into the picture?
In other words, Italy is, in many ways, a banana republic. That is why, until recently – until they realised what a forlorn hope it was – the Italians were so mightily keen on the EU: they were praying that Brussels would save them from themselves. As a British ambassador once said to me: “Italy? No one takes it seriously. The place is a joke.”
And finally, there is the conclusion that Luigi Barzini came to 40 years ago at the end of The Italians, his classic portrait of the nation:
The Italian way of life cannot be considered a success except by temporary visitors. It solves no problems. It makes them worse. It would be a success of sorts if at least it made Italians happy. It does not. Its effects are costly, flimsy and short-range. The people enjoy its temporary advantages, to be sure, without which they could not endure life, but are constantly tormented by discontent The unsolved problems pile up and inevitably produce catastrophes at regular intervals. The Italians always see the next one approaching with a clear eye but cannot do anything to ward it off. They can only play their amusing games and delude themselves for a while.
Interesting… Any comments, insights or opinions?
That’s also a very good description of how sweet life is in…..
Barcelona!!!!!
When I visted Italy (Rome / Sorrento) several years ago I didn’t even get the “illusion of temporary success witnessed by temporary visitors”. I remember thinking of it as a decrepid hole of a country that reminded me an awful lot of Saudi Arabia (except more run down and not as hot).
What a nightmare Italy sounds.
Thank god I live in London. I only need a million quid a week to get by on and everything is done with typical anglo-saxon efficiency and elan.
And to think I used to live in Dublin which was even better. Everything done on time, no corrupt politicians and no tax to speak of.
I suppose I’ll have to cancel that plan to buy a villa outside Ravenna then.
Eamon
Eamon: And just how exactly does your reminder of homegrown inefficiencies make the Italian reality in Italy less bad and less valid?
Gabriel: you should blame your beloved Mussolosconi – Bush’s kapo – for all the “economical freedom” Italians are now happily enjoying…
Kodiak says “it’s all George Bush’s fault”!
Having visited France a few times recently, I get the strong impression that it is headed in a similar direction, picturesque, lovely for tourists, fine for rich foreigners to retire to, but impossible to get a job in except in your grandma’s cake shop.
I’ve heard tell that things are much better in the north of Italy, Milan, Turin, etc., where actual serious stuff gets done. And I hope for France’s sake that there are French places like them also.
I find Italy a very frustrating place to visit. I find the people (especially the men) extremely rude. I don’t really find this of France, and the Spanish are the friendliest people in the world. The whole place rather ramshakle and held together seemingly by bits of string. (On a trip to Florence, it rained when I was there, and I went to a few museums. In one museum full of priceless renaissance art, there was a hole in the roof and a bucket on the floor collecting the water that came through it. And I had paid a substantial entrace fee to enter the museum. I believe the money was going to the central government and never being seen again in Florence, but you would think a small sum could be found to fix the roof).
Of course, Italy is a beautiful place with a vast number of magnificent things to see and the best food in Europe. However, it is a long way from being my favourite place to visit.
The other thing is that there is a huge north/south divide. Milan is a perfectly normal modern city where everything seems perfectly fine, and is in some ways almost Swiss.
These are all impressions from short visits, of course.
Michael,
“I find the people (especially the men) extremely rude” >>> they aren’t rude, they’re Italians.
“the Spanish are the friendliest people in the world” >>> right; and 99,99% of them opposed Bush’s war (Aznar didn’t).
“(…) there was a hole in the roof and a bucket on the floor collecting the water that came through it” >>> why didn’t you write to Sua Emittenza Berlusconi ?
(You see, David, it’s not all Giorgio’s fault)
“(…) and the best food in Europe” >>> and the second best food in Europe
😉
“Milan (…) is in some ways almost Swiss” >>> have you seen the suburbs; it’s a bit more like Naples (a loveable city BTW) ?
Kodiak,Italy was a mess long before Don Berlusconi became Prime Minister.And he hasn’t done anything to fix it,either.”Economic Freedom”,huh?A frighteningly opaque bureaucracy,endless regulations and a pervasive corruption do not freedom make.Did you even read the article?
What you see in Italy is anarchy,not freedom.Only in a state based on the rule of law can people be truly free,that is,protected from the arbitrary use of power of officials and fellow citizens alike.
JH,
“Only in a STATE (not originally underscored) based on the rule of law can people be truly free (…)”
Wow JH !!!
That was a confession…
“I find the people (especially the men) extremely rude” >>> they aren’t rude, they’re Italians.
Would you like to explain the distinction in more detail?
A confession of what?I gave up Anarchism a long time ago.
I would suggest that even most of the hard-core Libertarians will agree,if asked, that a functioning Government is necessary to enforce laws,and to protect the rights of the individuals.
I enjoy my freedom of speech,my freedom of association,and my freedom to spend my money as I see fit,with certain limits.But all of those rights are nought if the local bully,or the Mafia,or some warlord (think Afghanistan) named Mad Dog can come and kill me if I don’t follow their wishes.Therefore,a Government,preferrably of the “…of the people,by the people…” variety is necessary.
I think it was Ronald Reagan who said that the Government should only do what the people can’t do by themselves.I’ll second that.
Kodiak bore just doesn’t get it.
The state is important and should focus on:-
Protecting Parties in contracts;
Upholding property rights;
Protecting the State and people within it from external threats (like Islamists).
It should NOT diwersify into areas it where it tends to get into group tyranny. Stable Democracy is not about the Group imposing on the minority, it is about protecting the smallest minority AKA the individual. Only then can it let others build whatever systems they like such as (opt in) socialist organisations.
The current coercive punishment of the succesful to support programs that are not core to the state is why the EUSSR economies are in such a poor state.
Socialism = Theft.
JH, soz for duplication.
It just that theives who can’t be bothered to do their own stealing just annoy me.
The PIGS syndrome (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain) ?
No doubt much the same could be written about most Southern European countries. Is life any better in Athens, Lisbon or Madrid, say? Or London, Dublin or Paris, for that matter? No, not really — unless you’re rich, I suppose. But when you’re rich life is normally tolerable almost anywhere.
And that business about “the looming pensions crisis, the huge problem of illegal immigration, the hopelessly clogged-up judicial system” not receiving serious or proper attention: where on earth are these problems receiving such attention?
I’m not denying that some of the details in this article are fascinating — particularly the lowdown on the red tape nightmare. But most of the details also apply to every other European country, except perhaps Luxembourg.
Still, good fun to read … and at any rate the author is obviously into ‘postjudice’ rather than ‘prejudice’.
Michael,
When in Rome, do as Romans do.
Rudeness is a relative standard.
For instance: voting for Bush is rude, according to me, and probably not according to you.
Voting for state theft IS rude FULL STOP!
Rob Read,
You’re ranting your little libertarian catechism like a Red Guard declaiming Mao’s credo. Are you a trainee in Stalinist techniques?
Yes, “State theft” is indeed very rude. And that’s precisely what your Commander-In-Thief has done by stealing the elections from the USA & stealing peace from the World.
Great. Another thread kodiaked.
S. Weasel, yea and it’s always like some sort of dirty protest.
Guys, please. ‘Enjoy’ Kodiak’s absurdities without necessarily feeding his frenzied outbursts any further. I know he’s irresistible but try to learn from the past.
no corrupt politicians
This must be a different Dublin than the one I know. 😉
I just read the original Telegraph source article, and boy, is this guy dark:
Dude needs a vacation.
Rob Read – Brilliant post. Thanks. We needed that.
I worked in Texas briefly with an Italian woman whose parents were both doctors in Italy. When we got our 1044s, the tax form, we all groaned, but she threw hers into the trashcan con brio. When we protested that she’d better get it out because she’d have to fill it in, she was sincerely incredulous. Over the next month or so her insouciance didn’t waver, and she told us in Italy, no one paid their income tax. Her doctor parents had never paid income tax. Ever. Then how did the country run? She shrugged. She had no idea, but certainly, one did not pay taxes! What a hysterical notion!
All of this confusion arises because some of you seem to be making an absurd assumption that suitable work can be found in the private sector.
Work for the state, and retire early on a fine pension! It’s the Italian way!
Foreigners of course need not apply.
“the Spanish are the friendliest people in the world” >>> right; and 99,99% of them opposed Bush’s war (Aznar didn’t).
Well, “friendly” doesn’t necessarily mean “intelligent”. 🙂
The description of Italy sounds a lot like California, actually. Lovely, but hard to live in.
Italy’s good points sound like Australia’s. Of course here, 2000 Euros/month before tax is the average wage, and is enough to live on reasonably well. There are advantages to living in an unspoilt subtropical, hi-tech, stable, free, yet essentially 3rd-world country. And the crocs, sharks, spiders and snakes don’t really bother us (croc, shark and snake are good eating BTW).
Dunno about the language, but in addition to superb wines, some of the beers here aren’t too bad.
We’re fairly laid-back, but when something’s important, we’ve enough nous at least to organise a piss-up in a brewery (see Sydney Olympics for example).
Yes, you people stuck Way Up North in the cold, wet places like Sardinia or Sweden (Europe’s so small, however do you all fit?) have our sympathies. Of course I live in one of the coldest parts of Oz, Canberra. Similar latitude and climate to Tunisia, most places in Oz are warmer. Sydney’s the same latitude south as Baghdad is north, for example. Still, I’ll shed a few tears over my Sushi and Java Green Tea at lunchtime for you.
In the meantime, you might just find that with current exchange rates, a holiday in Oz might end up being cheaper than one in Italy. What you lose on the airfares, you gain on the accomodation (and everything else).
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