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Samizdata slogan of the day

· Slogans & Quotations

The Conservative party does not want Britain to leave the European Union. We want to make it work. Anyone who says differently is telling a lie.
– Ian Duncan-Smith in Prague

July 12th, 2003 |

17 comments to Samizdata slogan of the day

  • Perry de Havilland
    July 12, 2003 at 12:38 pm

    Yes… so a few less songs of praise about about how wonderful IDS is, please.

  • G Cooper
    July 12, 2003 at 12:54 pm

    Perry de Havilland writes:

    “Yes… so a few less songs of praise about about how wonderful IDS is, please.”

    I’m glad to see someone saying exactly what I’d been thinking and thanks, also, to Mr. Syme for the post.

    I suppose IDS supporters (his detractors too, come to that) will claim he was indulging in a thin end of the wedge strategy and that no mainstream politician dare advocate withdrawal at the moment.

    Even so, withdrawal should be our business – even if it is not the Tories’.

  • Jacob
    July 12, 2003 at 1:20 pm

    Yeah, it’s like Labour – they don’t want to dump socialism, just to make it work.

  • Russ Goble
    July 12, 2003 at 1:44 pm

    Well, I guess that pretty much says it all doesn’t it.

  • T. Hartin
    July 12, 2003 at 2:23 pm

    Is there a single British politician of any consequence at all who advocates staying out of the EU?

    And what’s this “leaving” rhetoric? Have you already joined? I know its the kind of thing you get sucked into slowly, but I thought that the Brits were still not in to the hilt, as it were.

  • Brian Micklethwait
    July 12, 2003 at 2:58 pm

    Yes, I clocked that too. Thank you Gabriel.

    Your move, Andy Duncan. It’s a long time since I’ve seen the hopes of a political footsoldier crushed so cruelly and so immediately, and – alas for Andy – so publicly.

  • Shaun Bourke
    July 12, 2003 at 8:32 pm

    I suspect Andy is at the fox hunt this weekend hoping the hounds and hunters pass him by from where he has sort cover till the storm clouds give way to more summer sunshine allowing him to further bask in the warmth of Tory glories of years past.

  • Mike
    July 12, 2003 at 8:52 pm

    New Labour will join the Euro when they think they can win a referendum.

    Lib Dems would join the Euro as soon as they get into power.

    IDS could never get the Conservatives to join the Euro as his party would be torn apart.

    What is the best option for you lot?

  • Guessedworker
    July 12, 2003 at 9:17 pm

    Expediency makes many a hostage to fortune and if ever IDS enters no.10 he will have to explain his strong language in Prague.

    I suppose, though, that expediency will also resolve the issue for him since, whether Britain is at the heart of Europe or its fingertip, a federal, nay communautaire future awaits. Unable to reform it, unable to accept it, a Tory government will have to depart from it. It will be expedient to bury the present, somewhat pusillanimous policy and expedient, too, for Tories on the left to face the fact that their middle way does not exist.

    Libertarians, meanwhile, should continue to provide a reality check for Tories – and never forget that the Tory Party is the only chance for this country to avoid dissolution. Don’t damn them too harshly.

  • Ron
    July 12, 2003 at 10:37 pm

    Europhiles always say that “you have to be in it to have influence”. In their case it’s a bit like saying a hamburger has to be in my stomach to influence me – terminally destroyed in the process with all its goodness sucked out.

    However, it’s perfectly possible to join the Tory Party to have the right kind of influence without being terminally destroyed (although embarrassed maybe).

    And as Guessedworker says, “the Tory Party is the only chance for this country to avoid dissolution”.

    Why don’t Perry and Brian and all the rest of you get yourselves on the Tory Candidates list? As an MP you can actually get to change things instead of steaming out lots of Internet vapour that is lost to 99.999999% of people’s conscious within 24 hours.

    Better still, get on the Labour list and cross the floor on day 1 of the next Parliament!

  • Perry de Havilland
    July 13, 2003 at 1:09 am

    Ron, I would sooner eat razor blades that vote Tory again, let alone run for democratic office as one. I have no interest in participating directly in a system that I regard as little more than democratically sanctified theft (i.e. democratic politics) for any party.

    We blog about a different way to interpret the things in the news, suggesting to people they might prefer to see things without accepting the axioms of the majority. For example, I do not accept the commonly assumed axiom that ‘democracy is good and so more democracy is even better’ because I generally regard political interaction as less desirable that social interaction, even if the politics are sanctified by a plurality.

    You may feel that our efforts are wasted but we do not (after all, you read us). We are more interested in changing the frames of reference within which people view the world (their meta-context, if you want to get technical) than playing around in the corrupting world of party politics. There are many ways to change the world and politics is only one of them.

  • Eamon Brennan
    July 13, 2003 at 2:45 am

    Perry: We are more interested in changing the frames of reference within which people view the world (their meta-context, if you want to get technical) than playing around in the corrupting world of party politics.

    Why not do both? Surely Samizdata is as much a think-tank as a group blog. Why not take these ideas and the change the frames of reference within which the Tories operate. This would not deliver some Libertarian utopia overnight, but it might help to act as a break on some of the worst political ideas bouncing around right now: expanding the provate sector, identity cards, expanding the EU (or the USE as it will come top be known).

    Eamon

  • Ron
    July 13, 2003 at 8:34 am

    I agree with Eamon.

    If the last election wasn’t the UK’s last chance (as Hague said) then the next one certainly will be.

    We’ve got to have enough of a Tory majority to outvote Labour, LibDems and the Ken Clarkes put together – so ego-tripping from no-hopers who like to see their name on pamphlets and ballot-sheets to the detriment of votes and workers for people who largely share their values will be unacceptable. (Are you listening UKIP?)

    The Tories wouldn’t be perfect, but at least we’ll still have our own country – which we won’t with Labour or LibDems. It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s no explicit mention of referendums in the next Labour manifesto.

  • Guy Herbert
    July 13, 2003 at 8:59 am

    Someone should answer T.Hartin:

    We’ve been part of the EU since it was formed out of the Europen Communities in 1994. There’s no real break between the two, and we joined the Europen Communities in 1973, so you could say it was 30 years.

    The only British politicians with any public profile to call for us to leave have been Tony Benn and the late J Enoch Powell–former Labour and Tory cabinet ministers respectively. Unfortunately the reputations they had were for fine oratory of a moonbat variety, so they didn’t necessarily add credibility to the cause.

  • Eamon Brennan
    July 13, 2003 at 11:37 am

    Sorry, I meant, public sector.

    I have got to get some sleep.

    Eamon

  • T. Hartin
    July 13, 2003 at 12:56 pm

    Thanks, Guy. Not being a Brit, I only really began following the whole EU thing relatively recently. Itb seems as though the EU has followed classic “salami” politics. It sounds like no one ever really sat down and made a formal decision to join anything that looks like what the EU has turned out to be. Kind of foisted on you in bits and pieces.

    Or maybe its been more like getting mixed up with the mafia. First its an innocent poker game, then some girls show up, then you need to borrow some money, next thing you know a beefy fellow in a string t-shirt is giving your kneecaps a non-therapeutic massage, and you’re wondering, “Hey, I just wanted to play a little poker. Where did these concrete overshoes come from?.”

  • Julian Morrison
    July 14, 2003 at 10:42 pm

    Mountains out of molehills. It’s not as if he’d somehow feel beholden to keep his “given word”.

    When dealing with politicians, watch what they do, because what they say is valueless.

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