Once in a blue moon I stumble across a story that appears so contrary and so bizarre that I honestly do not know what to make of it.
In fact, I had to stand up, breath deeply and take a walk around my apartment just to make sure I wasn’t dreaming when I read that the Israelis have expressed an interest in joining the European Union:
“In principle, the minister thinks a possibility exists for Israel to join the EU, since Israel and Europe share similar economies and democratic values,” said a spokesperson for Mr Shalom before adding, “it doesn’t mean he is preparing the dossier for applying tomorrow”.
MEP, Marco Pannella, of the Transnational Radical Party is said to be heading the campaign for Israeli membership and claimed on Tuesday that Israel does not exclude submitting an application for full membership during the term of this government.
Alright, no binding promises on the table but just the idea that this is even being floated at quite high-level raises a whole bevy of questions without, as far as I can tell, a single satisfactory answer.
First of all, is either party serious? For the EUnuchs it may be. They have made no secret of their ambitions to expand their sphere of influence over the Middle East and North Africa. But do they really think that they are going to be able to cope with the…er local difficulties?
And what about the Israelis? I can see the appeal of access to European markets for their industrial and agricultural output but have they stopped to contemplate the cost of the greatly increased regulatory burden that would be imposed on them? And what about defence and foreign policy, both of which would eventually have to be decided in Brussels? Not even for a fleeting second can I imagine the Israelis being willing to hand over their security to anyone, let alone the EU. Do they honestly imagine that the Belgians are going to come riding to their rescue should the need arise?
On the other hand, maybe it is not serious at all, in which case, what are the Israelis up to?
No, I’m afraid it’s all a big mystery to me but then the opaque and shadowy labyrinth of international relations often are. Searching for solid intelligence amidst the power-plays, hidden agendas, ulterior motives and nuanced positions is enough to drive anyone to the edge of madness and I am not prepared to go that far.
I am just intrigued.
And, by the by, who the flaming hell are the ‘Transnational Radical Party’? I have never heard of them and I can’t be bothered to go googling for an answer but let’s take it as read that I don’t like the sound of them one little bit.
I’m mystified that Israel bothers remaining in the United Nations. That’s like wanting to go on a dinner date with Hannibal Lecter.
Israel is in the Eurovision song contest. Remember the transvestite warbler who won?
Bring Israel into the EU – that should do it for a “Common Foreign Policy”!
Israel made the Oslo agreements. People sometimes lose their mind and do suicidal things. Joining the EU would be a far lesser catastrophe than Oslo.
I am surprised that David Carr is still surprised when politicians say or do insane things. I am usually astonished when they do sensible things.
Imagine this: “Sorry, we really can’t have you as members until you sort out that spot of bother with your neighbours, but maybe we could see our way into letting you in the European Economic Area, like Iceland, if we could dress it up as being part of peace-deal-of-the-month”.
I doubt that would be thought too terrible in Jerusalem. And even if it is unlikely, angling for it is a way to keep a couple of local bureaucrats^D^D^D diplomats occupied.
Oh yeah, they’ll join the EU, and have their budgetary contributions funding the Palestinian Authority… Sounds exactly what Sharon and Netanyahu want out of life.
Netanyahu and Sharon are funding the Palestinian Authority anyway, even without EU membership. Under intense pressure from the terrorist fighting US, they are transfering to the PA funds “owed” to them. There is a solemn PA promise not to use them for terrorism. There really is.
It isn’t as if Israel has been, historically, a libertarian utopia. I’d think they’d fit right in with the statist wonderlands of the EU if it wasn’t for that little problem of the new European vogue for anti-Semitism.
Personally, I think the Israelis are yanking the EU’s chain. It’s international policy as surrealist display – getting Europeans to rethink their current philo-Palestinism by disorienting and confusing them with plausible, weird nonsense.
oh yeah, the new European vogue for antisemitism… far more common in the US press than anywhere actually in Europe, i think you’ll find.
“the new European vogue for antisemitism … ”
Well, at least the new European vogue for appeasing and accomodating Arabs, including the murderous extremists among them.
So, do not fear, Israel will not be accepted, Europeans aren’t going to jeopardize their oil supply or fat contracts with the Arabs.
“far more common in the US press than anywhere actually in Europe, i think you’ll find.”
The last time I checked, the US press tends to avoid burning synagogues and physically attacking Jews with sticks and stones. They (and we here at the USA in general) are just too simplisme to be comfortable with the more refined Gemanogallic pasttimes, you see.
Wait, we did have somebody try to burn down a synagogue a while back… no, sorry, he got reported by a Brooklyn gas station attendant who was a better Muslim than the arsonist. Funny how we always seem to get the ones who want to assimilate, eh?
hmm… i think you misunderstood. I wasn’t accusing the US press of antisemitism… more suggesting that it’s made out in the US press to be a much bigger problem than it appears to be at ground level. It’s easy to take a few isolated crazies & build a whole sinister social phenomenon around them, especially from a distance.
On a personal level, I’ve lived in Europe almost all my life. I’ve come across people who were racist towards various colours & ethnicities, but i’ve yet to encounter any anti-semitism. I’m not denying there’s any at all, just suggesting that the case may have been exaggerated to you, and it’s certainly not a widespread craze that’s sweeping the continent. If you equate dispproving of Israel’s foreign policy, or an anti-Zionist attitude with Antisemitism though, as much of the US press seems to, then yes! tons of us are antisemitic. However, that’s not the usually accepted definition of antisemitism, and dangerously distracts from the genuine problems.
“Well, at least the new European vogue for appeasing and accomodating Arabs,”
hmm.. you mean as opposed to the new American vogue for demonising & shutting out arabs? cool.
Thinking about it further, i’ve encountered more than a little anti-Arab racism (particularly in France), but never anti-semitism. I think you don’t realise quite how significant the holocaust is in many Europeans’ (and particularly Germans) minds; an abomination which cannot, & should never be ignored, and which makes the very idea of even mild antisemitism repulsive. The extrapolation of such attitudes reached terrible fruition locally a mere 60 years ago, and believe me, we’d never f**ing let it happen again. To suggest otherwise is a crass insult to the mostly-very-decent people of France, Germany and other European nations.
The TRPniks are a rather eccentric bunch, but definitely worth a look 🙂
hmm… i think you misunderstood. I wasn’t accusing the US press of antisemitism…
Fair point.
more suggesting that it’s made out in the US press to be a much bigger problem than it appears to be at ground level.
Oh, is thata fact? According to the above site, the “number of violent anti-Semitic attacks in France increased sharply in 2002, to 193 attacks, up from 32 in 2001.” That’s a five hundred percent increase in one year in one country, if true. I don’t have figures for other countries handy: I presume that they’re lower. I hope that they’re lower, in fact.
Let us contrast with American incidents during the same period. Overall, incidents increased by 8% in 2002… but acts of actual vandalism decreased by 4%. Acts of harassment increased 17% – which is an embarrassment, even if most of the people doing them were also waving around No Blood For Oil signs.
As for your personal assurances that your continent isn’t antisemitic… there isn’t anything to say on that. For all I know, you live smack dab in the middle of a region where antisemitic activities aren’t tolerated, and have never actually encountered a bigot of that stripe. That’s why anecdotal evidence is traditionally suspect: there’s no way of knowing if it’s based on a representative sample of the whole.
“If you equate dispproving of Israel’s foreign policy, or an anti-Zionist attitude with Antisemitism though, as much of the US press seems to, then yes! tons of us are antisemitic.”
No, I’m equating anti-Semitism to acts of beatings, burnings and vandalism done to people/property because they are Jews, or because the property is owned by Jews (firing somebody because he or she’s a Jew counts, too). People can criticize foreign policy and/or disapprove of countries all they like: it’s actions that I care about. You will note that I originally commented on actions, not words.
Finally:
“Well, at least the new European vogue for appeasing and accomodating Arabs,”
hmm.. you mean as opposed to the new American vogue for demonising & shutting out arabs? cool.
I would just like to note that the parenthetical quote was made by another person. Also, like my President, I personally consider it important that the US continue to treat its Muslim citizens like any other, and I deplore (and do what I can to work against) acts of prejudice and intolerance. Like any form of discrimination, one act is one too many.
“In principle, the minister thinks a possibility exists for Israel to join the EU, since Israel and Europe share similar economies and democratic values,” said a spokesperson for Mr Shalom before adding, “it doesn’t mean he is preparing the dossier for applying tomorrow”.”
The EU has democratic values? When did this happen? I must have been asleep or something.
My take on the TRP – anti-prohibitionist Gramascians.
The like to dress in a bit of libertarian rhetoric but they are not libertarians.
At least as far as I can tell which may not be too far.
A_t,
Antisemitism is a very deep current in Europe, never absent. It is true that most Europeans try very hard to overcome it and avoid any overt manifestations of it.
It is also true that most incidents of violence against Jews are perpetrated by the deeply antisemitic and violent Arab population which are sizeable minorities in many European countries. There is a feeling that the Governments and the press in those countries isn’t doing enough to combat the Arab militants and antisemitic propagandists.
“”Well, at least the new European vogue for appeasing and accomodating Arabs,”
hmm.. you mean as opposed to the new American vogue for demonising & shutting out arabs? cool.”
Americans aren’t demonizing the poor wretched Arabs just because they feel like it. They have suffered a severe blow, and decided to combat terrorism. European tolerance toward militant Islamists smacks of fatigue, escapism, lack of vigour and weakness. They try to convince themselves that Islamist militancy isn’t a problem, and only American hegemony is.
Moe, the upsurge in anti-semitic attacks, from 32 to 190 may be a 500% increase. In a country of 60 million, that’s still a statistically insignificant number, even if it is the harbinger of a bad trend. For example, I ate a bagel yesterday for breakfast. Today I ate 2. That’s a 200% increase… yet I’m still not obese. This is not to dismiss the anti-semitic attacks but to try and put the trend in perspective.
And as for the issue underlying it all.. I think the EU wants to expand into the middle east economically, and it is also gambling that it can control the Israelis / the Middle East Problem once the Israelis cede sovereignty to the Brussels bureaucrats.
Chirac clearly has not yet learned: egomaniacal islamofascist huggers with no real Army always fare poorly at the hands of the Israelis. And I don’t have a beef with the Israelis, but they are really boisterous and argumentative — can you imagine how obnoxious a French/Israeli government body would be?
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Moe & Jacob,
Do either of you live in Europe? Do you speak to many europeans, or are these impressions you’ve received from reading the right wing US press?
I dont’ live in a haven from antisemitism; more to the point, there are probably ignorant havens *of* antisemitism here and there, & tbh if you look to the Eastern European “willing” non-weasel countries, you’ll probably find a lot more than in most of the Western countries currently criticised. And for your information, I’ve not just lived in one particular chance nice spot all my life; i’ve lived in different parts or Europe, rich & poor, and I’m telling you the truth; of all the people I’ve met, none seemed antisemitic. Now, some were open, or not very guarded anyway, about their racism towards other peoples, hence I doubt they would’ve held back through some sense of PC-ness. Accept that this rising European antisemitism is a myth. The rise in attacks in France you mentioned is statistically insignificant in a country of 60 million, as Omnibus Bill points out. It seems you’re looking for terrible prejudice & a need to dismiss Europe as a whole, for reasons of your own.
I’m sorry, you can correctly accuse many Europeans of socialist leanings if that’s your insult of choice, but stop trying to pin the antisemitic tag on us. We’re not pretending all americans are racist just because you had segregation laws until fairly recently.
Also, Moe,
“like my President, I personally consider it important that the US continue to treat its Muslim citizens like any other, and I deplore (and do what I can to work against) acts of prejudice and intolerance. Like any form of discrimination, one act is one too many.”
yes, *you* and the president consider it important that this happens, along with most of the population of the US. Good on you. Similarly most people in France undoubtedly think it important that antisemitic attacks don’t take place, & i’d be very very very surprised if Chirac has done anything but strongly discourage anti-jewish violence… so where’s the difference? I’ve certainly seen and heard enough americans speak quite hateful things about arabs as a race and islam as a religion recently. Injured pride or not, there’s no excuse for such talk. Both in France and in the US, it’s isolated individuals who speak these words, and to brand the whole country according to their actions, or to suggest the government is complicit, would be stupid in both cases.
“I’m sorry, you can correctly accuse many Europeans of socialist leanings if that’s your insult of choice, but stop trying to pin the antisemitic tag on us.”
This must be a fascinating conversation that you’re having with the other Moe: to wit, the one in your head that called you a socialist. The fact remains: your continent has seen a sharp and recent increase of acts of anti-Semitic violence against persons and property. While I take Omnibus Bill’s point re current statistical significance, I remain unconvinced that it will remain insignificant for any length of time. I would recommend that you spend considerably more time worrying about this problem then you (from your post) seem to be spending on it currently…
But you guys are probably sick of American opinions on this (and so many other subjects as well) by now, so I’ll just give a jaunty wave and wish you the best of luck on this one. I’d be glad to be wrong, after all…
Jacob,
While I am pro-US on most things, the anti-semitism allegation sounds like a conspiracy theory. I have never found any evidence of deep, hidden anti-jew currents. The article you linked to does not support your assertion. If anything it shows how isolated anti-semitism is.
A 500% increase on almost nothing is still almost nothing.
There is significant racial tension in Europe (and the US) but hardly involving jews. There are
many, many more racial attacks on muslims.
I will agree that *some* Europeans forget who their friends are but that’s not the same
thing.
Jacob posted a link to something? If he did, it’s not showing up on this side of the Atlantic…
Moe
Moe,
I only dropped in the socialist reference because it seems to be quite a potent insult on this site, and in the US, & lots of Europeans *do* have socialist leanings, whereas very few have antisemitic leanings.
I resent you sitting there at a distance, deciding what’s wrong with our countries on the basis of a few newspaper articles, & telling me what i should watch out for. You’re no different from a Guardian reader who’s never been to the states, and whose sole point of reference is what he reads in his favourite newspaper, who feels he has a right to tell Americans exactly what’s wrong with their country, and how it should be improved.
If antisemitism really was a rising problem in Europe, do you think the decent people over here would just bury their heads in the sand? Don’t you think the press would be making rather more of a big thing of it? or are they all perhaps controlled by a vast antisemitic conspiracy?
“I only dropped in the socialist reference because it seems to be quite a potent insult on this site, and in the US, & lots of Europeans *do* have socialist leanings, whereas very few have antisemitic leanings.”
So you were conducting a conversation with the Moe inside your head. Thought so.
“I resent you sitting there at a distance, deciding what’s wrong with our countries on the basis of a few newspaper articles, & telling me what i should watch out for. You’re no different from a Guardian reader who’s never been to the states, and whose sole point of reference is what he reads in his favourite newspaper, who feels he has a right to tell Americans exactly what’s wrong with their country, and how it should be improved.”
So you are sick of what you consider to be uninformed American opinions on this subject. Thought so.
“If antisemitism really was a rising problem in Europe, do you think the decent people over here would just bury their heads in the sand? Don’t you think the press would be making rather more of a big thing of it? or are they all perhaps controlled by a vast antisemitic conspiracy?”
So you are categorically disagreeing that your continent has a growing problem with anti-Semitism.
Thought so.
But hey, again, best of luck on this one: I’ll be happy if I end up being wrong…
Moe Lane writes:
“But hey, again, best of luck on this one: I’ll be happy if I end up being wrong…”
I’m not convinced that you are. A_t may take umbrage at Americans commenting from a distance that Europe is becoming increasingly anti-semitic, but I take umbrage at his speaking as if he had a definitive view from within the continent.
Barbara Amiel (wife of Conrad Black, who owns the Daily Telegraph) has written very pertinently on this subject and I find her arguments chillingly plausible.
One might argue that she, being Jewish, has an axe to grind, but I think there is convincing evidence that, particularly in certain self-styled ‘intellectual’ circles, anti-semitism is quite common.
G. Cooper… maybe in some rarified so-called intellectual circles antisemitism is acceptable, but since when were intellectuals representative of the mass of the people?
Also, intellectuals may get pretty poisonous, but they’re usually more into writing slanderous crap that can be knocked down & used to make them look foolish than actually killing people, desecrating graves, burning houses.
Ergo, yes you may get some unpleasantness in print from time to time, but even then, so far every intellectual who’s come out with anything remotely anti-Jewish (as opposed to anti-Zionist or anti-Israel) has been comprehensively slated in the press across the board, from left to right. So, i don’t think there’s a big problem there. Certainly no-one’s come out with anything remotely on the same level as Ann Coulter’s “invade their countries, kill their leaders & convert them to christianity” rant… & no-one’s suggesting the US is overrun with anti-muslim sentiment (well, except me, further up, but that was just to illustrate how spurious the antisemitism charges really were).
What is antisemitism ? The answer is too long to post here, but surely when synagogues are burned and Jews beaten – that is antisemitism. There is no such thing in Europe! Oh, wait, there were a few incidents in France. Yes, but they were too few, they don’t count. There were some antisemitic utterings by intellectuals too, but who listens to them anyway ? – they are insignificant.
What you have isn’t antisemitism but anti-zionism, which is an etirely different beast. A PC beast, replacing the old, verbotten one.
I have never heard of incidents where mosques were vandalized or muslims beaten. They are Semites too, soo that’s another proof there is no antisemitism.
Nevertheless I have to agree with A_t: of all the pathologies many Eropeans suffer from (socialism, pacifism, sclerosis) antisemitism is by far the least significant (wether it exists or not).
A_t:
“If antisemitism really was a rising problem in Europe, do you think the decent people over here would just bury their heads in the sand? Don’t you think the press would be making rather more of a big thing of it?”
You mean, like last time?
(I apologize profusely and conceed defeat as per Goodwin’s Law now. The point was just too good to miss.)
A_t commented:
“I’ve certainly seen and heard enough americans speak quite hateful things about arabs as a race and islam as a religion recently. Injured pride or not, there’s no excuse for such talk.”
I hope I am mistaken, but you seem to be implying that 9/11 ‘injured our pride’ — sir, you are absolutely mistaken. 9/11 injured our sense of decency, solidified our belief that terrorism is not a justifiable action to further one’s agenda, and reinforced our will to defend our country. I’m proud of my country, and that pride was not injured by 9/11, it was renewed.
Again, I hope I have mistaken your meaning; otherwise, it speaks to a chasm of difference in our national ideologies. Perhaps in Europe one’s “pride” is what would have been offended by such an attack. In America, we are not so concerned with our pride (and perceived damage to it) as we are with 9/11’s basic expression of inhumanity and evil.
cj… apologies; ‘injured pride’ wasn’t really the term i should’ve used. Not quite sure what should replace it… sense of offense? hmm… I guess it just upset an almost unbroken record of inviolability vis-a-vis the affairs of the outside world, at least when it came to violence, & I understand this is a hard thing to come to terms with.
angua, you’ve conceded defeat yourself, but you clearly don’t see that it’s precisely BECAUSE of last time that it (in antisemitic form) is so incredibly unlikely to happen again. If you were to predict the rise of a party with neo-fascist leanings, favouring the persecution of arabs or east europeans, rather than jews I’d be much more inclined to believe you.
& Jacob… how is my rational agnostic opposition to the concept of zionism (‘people should be given a piece of land/allowed to immigrate to this particular piece of land, where their ancestors lived 2,000 years ago, based on their religion’? i’m sorry this doesn’t make sense in my book) a PC version of antisemitism (hating a group of people because of their race/religion).