The government’s ‘consultation exercise’ on the introduction of ID cards and which we flagged up last month officially ended yesterday.
A lot of people who hold strong views on this subject, including the Samizdata team, have made those objections known to the Home Office but I rather doubt that that will stymie the determination of HMG to press ahead with their introduction. The governments wants an ID card scheme and, if opinion surveys on the matter are to be believed, so does much of the British public. It is only a matter of time.
A trifling relief though, is that the Independent has decided to live up to its name for a change:
“Initially the state bureaucracy made showing one’s card a precondition for dealing with it. Today, it is business that increases the reach of identity cards. Spaniards have long needed them to open bank accounts; now they are vital for any credit-card purchase, and bureaux de change won’t serve you without them. It’s also impossible to buy a mobile telephone without theDNI, for the network will log its number with that of the phone. I guess the police can see such records: they are certainly told who is checking into Spanish hotels, since Spaniards must show their DNI. The hotel passes its number straight to the police.
Employers love identity cards. They photocopy the DNIs of new staff, whose payslips then carry the number for tax purposes. This, linked to bank records, allows the authorities to track individuals all through Spain’s financial system. What really amazes me is the way Spain’s card is needed for such harmless activities as renting a car or flat – or getting married. Our church did not read the banns but instead asked for DNI numbers. Even the nursery school expected to see it before taking our child.
When I ask Spaniards “Why?”, they seem surprised. Then I remember that at 14 they all had to visit their local police station to be fingerprinted and photographed before receiving their first DNI card. It’s a rite of passage that makes young Spaniards feel grown up, yet the first time they use their card is to sit school exams. Many will argue that such obsessive bureaucracy is cultural and could never come to Britain, but I predict it will. In Spain, British giants such as Barclaycard and Vodafone already ask to see customers’ identity cards and will do so here.”
A salutory reminder of not just the way that compulsory ID cards turn a society into an open-air prison but also of the profound difference between Anglo-Saxon ethos and that of Continental Europe. In Britain sadly, the former has been discarded in favour of the latter. Madness, utter madness.
“Continental experience shows that identity cards will dramatically change life in Britain. It also reveals why Whitehall really wants them. The daily logging of their unique card numbers will create audit trails that lead to that Blairite dream, joined-up government! This already exists in Europe because entire populations dutifully troop along to acquire identity cards, just because they always did. I wonder how Mr Blunkett will force 50 million-odd Britons to do likewise.”
All true enough but, unlike the author, I do not expect either Mr.Blunkett or any of his successors to be thwarted to any significant degree by the public. Due to the enactment of anti-money laundering laws, it is already impossible to open a bank account, transact money or buy a property in Britain without being required to produce a passport or driving licence. These impositions were introduced by stealth in the 1990’s without either a word of dissent or murmer of complaint. Moving to a universal ID card of the continental variety is but another few steps, especially in a few years when the principle of a government audit trail will have become widely accepted as a part of the social landscape.
I daresay the introduction of the cards will prove to be fraught with bungling and bureaucratic horrors but if anyone expects the British people not to stand for it, then they are heading for a crashing disappointment.
David
Maybe we can. I personally have never felt strongly enogh about anything to take to the streets over it. Until now.
I’m not sure of what to do at this moment but I can say this. I will not submit to an ID card under any circumstances.
Eamon
“. . . compulsory ID cards turn a society into an open-air prison. . .”
Ye gods man, I’ve never heard it put so well. That’s the objection in a nutshell, isn’t it? Soon we’ll all be on what amounts to probation, whether convicted of a crime or not. And you know what happens when you violate your probation.
ID cards, how long before we are required to have our ‘mark’ tatooed behind the ear?.
I think the British public will stand for anything, why? because they stand for nothing in the first place, so they, (the majority), will line up like lambs to get their cards, it would be just too much effort to do anything else, after all, we have NI cards, drivers licences, passports, etc, so what’s another little card?.
You have heard the story of the frog in the pot, bought gently to the boil, he doesn’t jump out, but put the frog into boiling water and he jumps.
This so typifies the reactions of the public to all manner of State manipulation, that I am led to conclude that the public will stand for anything – just as long as it doesn’t immediately or adversly affect them personally.
All very sad, that only a small minority feel moved enough to object, to yet another encroachment on our freedom as individuals.
FYI — the “frog in boiling water” story is an urban legent. See http://www.snopes.com for details.
Apparently scientists have done experiments to test this.
Do Not Try this at Home! From what I read on samizdata, HMG will deal harshly with assaults on non-human victims.
Larry,
The frog story is meant as a simple way to explain to simple people that erosion of freedoms and liberty are done gradually, and the political environment has to be conditioned, often over a long period of time, for the proposed changes (losses) to be accepted by the general populace.
Unfortunately, our ‘masters’ are all too adept at such practices.
An ‘assist’ to this manipulation is the English sense of humour, which tends to diffuse and sidetrack any serious objection to HMG scams!.
I for one will welcome the ID card. I intend to register as a Gypsy. That way I will save a fortune on car tax and insurance and i will be able to park anywhere for free.
Given this government’s track record, expect the whole project to overrun on cost, never work and fall apart after a few years.
it is already impossible to open a bank account, transact money or buy a property in Britain without being required to produce a passport or driving licence.
I didn’t realise this until the other day when wifie and I decided to take advantage of low interest rates by swapping our mortgage over to a new lender. The “application form” we received is a small book (signature required on each page) and we are expected to provide the lender with all sorts of financial and personal information (I half expected at one point to have to give my inside leg measurement). Documents required are: passport or driving licence (if the “new” style licence then both parts have to be sent – of course showing any points you may have accumulated), six months of bank statements, council tax bills, credit card statements from the both of us, six months of wage slips…
I was pissed off to have to fill in so much detail – when I first bought a property seventeen years ago all I had to do was provide a wage slip showing that I had an income and bank details – okay, I know, I had to provide a bit more detail than that but the point is that it wasn’t half as intrusive an exercise as it is now.
So what can we do? We can keep our current mortgage going and pay through the nose for it or we give the information because no information, no money.
Perhaps we should emigrate then come back and claim asylum – not too many demanding questions seem to be asked at the point of entry…
“it is already impossible to open a bank account, transact money or buy a property in Britain without being required to produce a passport or driving licence.”
So what difference does the ID card make ? Not much.
I live in Israel, where we have ID cards – I don’t fell terribly oppresed and unfree.
It is the advances in technology that make tracking people easier, through traffic speed cameras, toll road cameras, cell phones, and computer data bases everywhere. The ID card is irrelevant, you can track people also without one.
The intention of government in introducing an ID card is to enhance it’s ability to control the citizens; this intention is a bad thing, to be feared. The ID card is technically irrelevant and useless, but it is the tangible expression of this totalitarian tendency of government.
David’s post reminds me of an email conversation I had a few months ago with a former colleague, who now lives on the Continent. He said he could not understand my complaints since, and I paraphrase him, “they all have one here and no-one sees why it is such a big deal.”
That of course perfectly sums up the horror of this – sheep voting for extra mint and rosemary.
If you don’t like the system, don’t play the game. Start looking now for contacts, advice, etc. on how to obtain false ID. If you choose to submit to these laws, they will win. Instead, why not choose to become a criminal?
As Duncan Frissell once said (perhaps someone else as well), you can buy heroin in prison. There’s a strong lesson there….
Alan, in the case of a mortgage, you’re dealing with a private institution. They’re about to lend you a vast amount of money, and are perfectly entitled to make whatever checks on your background they fancy. They’re *definitely* entitled to demand some kind of evidence that you are who you claim to be. I have no idea why things have changed since your first mortgage, but perhaps there’s been more fraud.
There’s a big difference between the government imposing compulsory ID cards (you have no choice), and companies wanting to see some kind of identification. They’re independent players and are allowed to run their business as they wish. If your objections to providing suitable ID are that strong, you are entitled to choose not to get a new mortgage, or to look for a provider who will be more ‘reasonable’.
I can take on board the arguments and concerns about compulsory ID cards, but these visions of full-spectrum government surveillance, based solely on us all carrying a bit of paper, seem somewhat overblown. I have lived in countries where ID had to be carried, and also been in situations where i’ve had to cross the border on a daily basis, & thus had to carry ID. I’ve never felt any less personally free as a result. I find being watched by cameras as soon as I leave my house; something far more common in the UK than anywhere else in the world, much more intrusive.
I think there *are* genuine issues to be concerned about, re. ID cards, but they’re not related to the carrying of cards per se; rather, the information that could be stored on these cards, & who would have access to it. An official bit of paper, with your name & photo on it, will not significantly curtail your freedom, and claiming it will detracts from the more serious issues and makes anti-ID card campaigners much easier to sideline & portray as paranoid extremists.
ID cards – if the UK becomes as friendly and civilised a place as Spain, I’ll go for it.
A_t
“There’s a big difference between the government imposing compulsory ID cards (you have no choice), and companies wanting to see some kind of identification. They’re independent players and are allowed to run their business as they wish.”
Mortgage lenders may be private organisations but they are forced by law to demand various types of ID verification before they can do business with you. They must do this whether they like it or not under the anti-money laundering regime. Failure to comply can attract a custodial sentence of up to 14 years.
To suggest that the ID requirements of financial institutions are merely a matter of company preference is like asserting that it is up to individual retailers whether or not they sell cannabis to the public.
Kindly defer to indisputable facts before posting this kind of rubbish.
A_t
“An official bit of paper, with your name & photo on it, will not significantly curtail your freedom”
Absolutely correct and true !
What is bothering isn’t the piece of paper but the mentality of the government who would impose by force (law) this useless piece of paper on the citizens. Not only are they seeking control, they are also dumb.
David,
If I were a mortgage provider I would demand some kind of proof of identity from those who apply for loans, no matter what the law says.
A_t and Jacob – I agree, a company about to lend me a large sum of money is entitled to ask for proof of identity so they can verify that I am who I say I am. In the same position I would also seek assurance that the person being lent money is going to repay it and not run off with it. That’s perfectly fair and reasonable.
In this instance however, I think the demand for information goes beyond what is reasonable compared to several years ago. As a comparison, look at how easy it is to obtain a credit card (do you have to send Barclaycard your driving licence to get a Gold card? Not yet anyway).
My mortgage application is with a reputable lender and the information along with the application form (book!) has to be sent to their head office. I’m putting a huge amount of trust in the process that a) the documents won’t get lost when they reach the other end and b)nobody at the other end will misuse the information – after all, what I’m providing could easily allow someone to “steal” my identity. The key here is trust. Call me naive but I’m willing to put a large amount of trust in the lender but they don’t have the same amount of trust in me. The trend of private companies seeking more and more personal information to the extent where they “own” you is surely not healthy?
The original post was about ID cards and I apologise for taking the discussion slightly off track, so just to go back to it:
“An official bit of paper, with your name & photo on it, will not significantly curtail your freedom”.
But if the government passes a law to say that you MUST carry an ID card and because of a simple mistake you’re NOT carrying it when stopped by the authorities, they may well decide to hold you in custody until they can satisfy themselves that you are “okay”. Surely that’s a significant curtailment of your freedom?
Jacob, so would I.
I have no issue with providing ID verification when voluntarily entering relationship, such as borrowing.
Jacob, so would I.
I have no issue with providing ID verification when voluntarily entering relationship, such as borrowing.
David, I apologise for posting ‘rubbish’. I plead ignorance, though i suppose that would’ve been obvious enough if i’d looked into it. In my defense, I suspect this legality’s hardly widespread common knowledge.
I will happily defer to indisputable facts, if they’re available to me.
I still suspect though, that even if the rules were relaxed, most mortgage providers would still demand the same documentation.